HWasp

It's not just the weight, but rather the wing loading, and the shape of the wing, that matters. The majority of the drag that comes in a high AoA turn is due to the vortices forming (google induced drag, or vortex drag)as lift is produced. This is why the F-14 can sustain turns that good, while being one of the heaviest, because it can spread those wings, making them more efficient for that low speed turn (less drag from vortices for a given amount of lift)

Not sure if I understand your question correctly, but imagine it like this: Let's say the max sustained G for that Phantom is 5 at 380kts at 3000', and 7 for the F-16 (just made up numbers) -They are flying in close formation making a 5g level turn together (same 5 g, rate and radius of course) -The Phantom in the lead is in max. afterburner, struggling to keep the 380kts. If it pulls any more G, it will start to bleed speed. -The F-16 following in close formation is in minimum afterburner, keeping formation easily, plenty of reserves left. The viper pilot can pull inside the Phantom's turn, while maintaining the same 380kts, all he needs to do is to add more thrust.

I've made another test, this time at 420 kts, closer to corner speed. Top competitors are: F/A-18----- 8g sustained (20,7 degrees/second) Mig-29A---- 8g sustained (20,7 degrees/second) They were at 18,5 (Mig29) and 19 (F18 ) degrees per second flying at 320 kts. Compare that to the 7g/320 kts---> 24 degrees per second of the F-14B.

The Mirage is often featured on the red side in multiplayer, due to balance reasons. This type of usage might increase even further with F-14 coming. I think it would be very nice to have a fictional skin for that purpose, if it could be squeezed into a future update. Thank you in advance!

The Viggen is frequently used as a substitute on the red side due to the lack of supersonic red strike aircrafts in multiplayer. In case the Viggen team has some spare time, it would be nice to have a skin for this purpose in the future . Thank you in advance!

:lol: I will ask HB for a fictional soviet skin for the Viggen.

If you re-read my post, you can see, that all of the tests were at the same 320 kts indicated at the same 3000, during level flight. You can calculate both rate and radius if you have the speed (IAS is almost same as the true speed at this low alt., as you know) and the load factor. So yes, at the same speed and altitude pulling the exact same G in level flight gives you the exact same rate and radius, regardless of the type, or anything What this does not tell you, is the maximum rates ,for example, of the given type. 320 is below the corner speed of the types listed (except the Mig-15 maybe)

I've just tested the sustained and instant.(peak) Gs available for the other fighter in DCS. Just for fun (10 minutes of flying around). Not accurate, just to get a picture about how scary that 7g/320kts sustained will be with the F-14B. Clean aircraft with 60% fuel (4000kg for the 27/33), and decreasing during the test (no unlimited fuel) at ~3000ft/320kts Type--------- Sustained/Peak Mig-28 :)-------- 4,3 / 6 M2000 ---------- 5,1 / 7,6 F-15C -----------5,4 / 8 F/A-18C -------- 5,7 / 7,4 Mig-29A -------- 5,6 / 7,9 Mig-29S -------- 5,4 / 7,9 Su-27 ---------- 5,8 / 7,6 / 10 (limiter off) Su-33 -----------5,0 / 6,3 / 10 (limiter off) Mig-15bis- ------6,3 / 8 This test clearly shows, that there is no other way, you will have to get into that old rusty Mig-15 rotting behind the hangar to have a good chance in guns only BFM against the cat. :smilewink:

Well, in this case disregard post #151 :) This is exactly my point.

Holy s...! That is like 24 degrees per second sustained.

:doh::doh::doh:

I did not know that the sole purpose of the F-14 was to fly CAP over the ocean... Who is going to escort a strike package then?

We can choose to approach this from any direction, the fact is, that producing and fielding a 23 takes only a fraction of the resources needed for a Tomcat. What is the exact multiplier? I don’t know, and will not even try to research that. Regarding the production numbers: All MiG-23 versions: ~5000 All F-14 versions: ~700 How many was fielded at one time? I will also leave that research to someone else...:)

Most people here probably know about the crimes committed in the name of that terrible ideology, there and in other countries, but things are rarely black and white, and this is not a political forum.

That is a valid point, but for the sake of this experiment I would suggest that these MiG drivers are well trained, experienced and they are thoroughly briefed on the capabilities of the F-14 and the AIM-54. (Otherwise you’d need to find half a squadron of serious DCS simmers in 202x that never flew the F-14... unlikely :) ) If they know, what they are facing, they would probably try to use tactics that make it difficult for the Cats to kill them at safe ranges. (beaming, baiting shots then turning cold to waste missiles, approaching at vastly different altitudes, directions, etc, etc). There would be losses of course, but it shouldn’t be head first against the wall...

My idea was about a symmetric US vs USSR confrontation, considering a more or less equal military budget. The internet says that soviet GDP was less than half of US GDP, but they have overcome that problem cleverly, by using almost 20% of their GDP for military spending :smilewink: (all random internet sources). Let’s not over complicate this, just simply x dollar worth of Tomcat vs x dollar worth of MiG.

Reading this debate I have come up with the idea of a nice Tomcat Challenge (for 2024 maybe...) 1. Take a flight of 2 F-14As, fully armed, with good crews. 2. Estimate the cost in USD for the year the simulation would take place (198x) for the Tomcats (just for the planes, no need to overcomplicate) 3. Estimate the number of Mig-23MLAs, you could buy using the same amount of money. (8? 10? 12?) 4. Let them fight! :) This should be in multiplayer of course.

The new mission sounds very exciting and dynamic, I'm eager to try it tomorrow. :thumbup: Regarding the testing of the air to ground weapons restrictions, I am quite concerned about it though. While not familiar with all the missions currently running, this seems to be featuring the most difficult targets (MBTs, dispersed moving armored targets, IR SAMs...). Further problem is, that AI controlled BMP 2s are unrealistically dangerous even to fast jets. I am quite sure, that if we use this setup to test the A/G weapons retrictions, the feedback will be negative, causing to disregard a very challenging and fun option in the future. In my opinion some of the older missions could be a much better candidate for this test.

Awesome! Thank you! Looking forward to the new mission :joystick: Regarding the C-101, I have seen some vids on youtube showing, that it is basically unkillable right now due to some damage modeling problems. Didn't test it yet though...

Consider the following mission idea: RED: Mig-15 Mig-19 Mig-21 (no r-60m) L-39ZA (no r-60m) BLUE: P-51D F-86 Viggen (no Rb-74, no mavericks, no BK-90) F-5E (no Aim-9P5) Blue team would be on the offensive, targeting red SA-2/SA-3 and EWR sites with old school wild weasel missions (rockets/dumb bombs only). Once SAMs are down, AI B-52s could spawn in to attack different targets. Also blue could attack soft, area targets (concentration of trucks, tents, light buildings) defended by light AAA. No guided A/G weapons! :) RED: obviously, defend the objectives and intercept B-52s Possible side mission: destroy rebel ground targets (insurgents),

Did you actually see the video? Maybe you should take a look again... I hope they are either adjustable, or will be reset later :)

I think you might have misunderstood me, that wasn't aimed at you, but at the guy suggesting that Mig-23 sales will be low, therefore it is not needed...

It is not mandatory to choose between two products, since you can just simply buy both eventually.... Two totally different planes with different roles. And also, since the Mig-23 is much more simple, it could be possible that the develpment time is less, making it more profitable for the company even with less copies sold. Other than this, asking to cancel a product, just because you are not interested is disgusting attitude.

Surprise: It does not feature that system. Second surprise: The AI aircrafts cheat.

It would be really nice to have the manual before christmas, even if it is not 100% complete.