witness_me

UBOATS meant lock warning (i.e. constant illumination / tracking) - a radar warning receiver on it's own can't detect missile launches unless it picks up on the electromagnetic radiation for the missile guidance (fox1 or 3 etc - nowdays it's more common for the rwr to be part of a larger integrated defensive subsystem, including missile warning systems etc) you can pick up the guidance signal if you're lucky - not sure if that's modelled in DCS. I'm not disputing that instant launch warnings are probably a bug not sure if i'm following - a radar in TWS still illuminates a target with emr, so the target should get some kind of rwr warning for the threat if the rwr is not from the stone age - tws is just a type of 'multitasking' where the radar splits a percentage of it's time making sure the target is where it's expected to be, based on algorithms predicting it's location using previous vectors stored in memory, and looking out for other targets. Also i think we're agreeing that the rwr can only know about a missile headed your way if it picks up relevant EMR (e.g. sarh or guidance signalling etc)

i would expect rwr warnings for a tws track too though, unless i misunderstood what you're saying? the rwr should produce warnings when it detects emr - it should produce a tone if it's tracked using tws (e.g. square or sine-ish waveform), a tracking warning if the aircraft is continuously illuminated, a missile launch if it picks up the radar signalling to an amraam datalink etc

hi, just wanted to say i don't experience this anymore since the last patch, when i egress at high G or when i do a roll & dive etc thanks so much for fixing! feel free to delete the post for clean-up purposes etc

you mean this reported bug? :P https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=259790 i wonder how many duplicates there are :P just wanted to say, i don't get this problem anymore - the elevation seems alright, however, i noticed that sometimes you can't find a target no matter what, unless you switch to a/g mode and then go a/a again i recorded a video with a bunch of problems with the air to air radar (most importantly, sometimes the radar will drop a track when i roll, sometimes all it takes is a 50-60 degree roll, sometimes it happens at 90-100 degrees), you can see the targetting problem here: - in the video i'm swapping between the f1 view and the f10 map so you can see i'm pointing at the correct direction/elevation etc my "fix" is to quickly swap from a/a to a/g and back, after i'm done with an engagement, in order to reset it

there's no doubt in my mind that a top tier radar manufacturer from china would be able to come up with a similar or better radar than the griffo s (or a radar with similar specs from any western manufacturer) at a lower price, i think that much is a given - if PAF went with lower specs it would either be because they wanted to produce it domestically/there was some IP transfer or they were looking at drivign the cost even lower or maybe they just use different air to air tactics? p.s. please take a look at my youtube video and let me know if you get the same problems - it's driving me nuts, i can't do air to air since the last patch :P

it does, go to a2g master mode, then slew it to some direction (say 10 degrees lower than boresight) and it'll remain pointing to that direction (and you'll be able to see the ground zooming past you in the tgp view) if you're asking why doesn't it continuously change angles so that it can follow what you slewed it at initially, then it's because there's something missing from being able to specify a point in 3d space: distance. You have a vector to a desired point, but the computer doesn't know how far along that axis the point you want to track is, so it can't calculate how fast it needs to rotate the tgp gimbal in order to follow it. If you're in a car that's moving at 50mph and you're looking at something on the side half a mile away, you'll be moving your eyes much faster than if you're looking at something that's initially in the same vector but 5 miles away. The computer in this case doesn't know how far the object you want to track is, so it can't follow it (basically it's focused at a point at infinity, as it can't laze&range)

just a guess - i can't log on to the game at the moment, did you disable the zeroizer?

the grifo i linked does +- 60 degrees on both axis - i linked it here just because it seemed to me that in the early days of the project the spec was for a different setup but they (PAF) altered their specs later on (different tactics? cost? who knows) the 2nd photo is from an early f15, the other one is from another airplane/it's there just as another example of what they used to do back in the day (the 1st one is still in use) no worries, i didn't get such an impression, all good here :) we're all just trying to figure stuff out :beer:

your airplane has gps/ins and it's computer can calculate it's location in 3d space and it's vector of movement (using accelerometers, measuring angular velocity with gyros, it can measure air speed etc), it can also calculate the location of a waypoint in 3d space, relative to own position (necessary for navigation cues etc) and/or provide an angle to the tgp to point at

@Pikey - if you're referring to a problem similar to the one i was reporting here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=259790 -- I think it's now fixed @Aeria - first of all my comment about the radars with 2dof in the last 20yrs was a brainfart - it was late and all that :) I meant, the latest radars with a rectangular scan area (before advances in electronics made possible the increase in the number of modules / being able to have a square or square-ish scan area), before they were all obsoleted by aesa's (a good couple of decades ago or so), were using 3dof gimbals to overcome issues with the scan area becoming very narrow when an airplane is banked and/or for noise related reasons etc - chronologically this is more of a 70's / 80's issue rather than 20 years ago e.g. and - the f15 was using the same arrangement so the 30 degrees limitation on the vertical wasn't so much of a problem unless someone would do a barrel roll :P the jeff was to use this originally i think: https://www.leonardocompany.com/documents/20142/3149726/GRIFO_S_Fire_Control_Radar_LQ_mm07799_.pdf?t=1538987501858 maybe PAF didn't want to pay for a larger antenna for whatever reason :S I have no idea :S I know very little about the company that makes the radar and/or the history behind the jeff and about how "non western" airforces use their aircrafts/tactics involved etc, maybe somehow it's a non issue for them? As far as the game is concerned though, the radar is behaving erratically: - sometimes if i roll more than 50 degrees, i might lose a track, even if i'm pointing straight at the target (wtf!?) - sometimes the radar tracks 60 degrees on the vertical, sometimes it doesn't - there's all sorts of visual glitches (i can swap modes and that takes care of them) - it's not losing tracks when it should do - picking a target is all over the place, sometimes i click on an old return and the radar locks on to a target 20 degrees apart !? I'm not sure if it's my computer, if it's a general issue but nobody's doing any a2a and people haven't noticed, if the radar has some weird specs regarding rates of changes in attitude and/or angle when tracking etc i recorded all sorts of issues with the help of a mate: i'll try to raise a bug report, but considering that this post took me almost half an hour to type, i'll probably get to it sometime in the week :)

I'm pretty new to DCS, so not sure if this is how the game implements things etc - that being said you shouldn't be getting a warning in your RWR for an amraam or sd-10 launch, regardless of the presence of a track or not. I always thought the msl lch cue was from the MWS :confused: The rwr is able to detect emr from radars and can give you a warning for changes in the tracking mode or a missile launch based on the changes in the signature of the radiation detected. There would be changes between TWS and DTT or STT (as the signature of the emitter changes and also the frequency of "beam hits" / energy etc) or if a sarh missile is lauched, as again there will be changes to the signature. However there wouldn't be any changes to the radar signature when launching a missile that gets its updates through a datalink like the amraam unless you have some equipment that can detect the datalink signal etc (there are advanced rwr's out there that use fuzzy logic and have a very large database of systems/frequency hopping/energy patterns etc, but i very much doubt our jeff has any of that)

make sure you're in air to ground master mode

yeah if you have the same limits up/down with left/right then you can still maneuver at least, unfortunately the jeff has 30 degrees on the vertical and 60 on the horizontal afaik sorry i wasn't talking about aesa's, i shouuld have clarified that my comment didn't make much sense if taken literally - i doubt anyone is still making this type of radars these days - they're not in use for some time now. The airplanes you mention are pretty old - i guess i was expecting a modern fighter to fly in a certain way, but maybe that wasn't a concern for the manufacturer etc or they simply didn't want to pay for this capability the "problem" i'm having is that if the radar scan zone is a rectangle and you can't rotate your antenna then when the airplane rolls the limits change (horizontal limits are now vertical and vice versa), not allowing you to perform some types of manoeuvres. It's getting pretty late for me i'll try to post some drawing tomorrow and hopefully explain this better - thanks for trying to help though!

doh - sorry didn't realize you were talking about the actual mfcd resolution :doh:

no issues here (i'm exporting the tgp view though - not sure if that plays a role?)

are you trying to shoot the spaceships from space invaders :P jokes aside - the jeff tgp has a range of 22nm i think, i can tell from your screnshot that you're exceeding that p.s. the f18 has the same tgp the a10 and f16 have (at the moment), it's the litening and it's WIP (will probably get replaced with the atflir when it's ready)

Hey - thanks for helping - i don't think i know of any fighter jets that came out in the past 20 years that have 2 axis :S - do you know that this is the case for sure? if you have 5 mins to spare/help, can you try some instant mission and test a couple of things: - lock something in stt, point straight at it and then do a roll and let me know if you dropped the contact at around 70 degrees - lock the target again, then do a flat left (bank and start pointing away from it - same horizontal plane though), pull some g's while doing it, do you drop the contact say when your nose is pointing say at around 30-40 degrees from your target (but not at 60 degrees)? if don't have time no worries - much appreciated anyway :)

Can someone from the DEKA team or someone who knows the particular airplane/radar very well please confirm if it has 2 or 3 dof? I'm facing various problems when I'm using the a/a radar and I'm wondering if my understanding of the airplane is lacking/I'm using the wrong tactics for it's capabilities, there's something wrong with my installation or if i'm hitting some obscure bug? Thanks in advance!

Hello fellow jeffs - i got a couple of problems since the update, I haven't seen anyone else raise these issues and they're kind of hard to miss so it's probably something in my installation? - I can't get STT anymore (even though the radar stops scanning and looks like it maintains STT, the actual indication is missing from the radar panel) - When i have a target locked (a/a), if i roll to say more than 70 degrees or so (right or left, doesn't matter), i lose the track! Any protips are much appreciated, don't want to spend the weekend grounded :P I already did a repair on DCS

Read the text again, all the way through to weapons launch etc, you missed something

you can see when the missile radar turns on (tof -> toa -> 0 - pitbull), thing is it has a weak radar/can be notched easily, so i think any guestimations regarding when/at what distance a sensor would pick it up are just that, guestimations, maybe all that is modelled, maybe not fully - who knows. Comparing with another missile doesn't make too much sense either - do they have the same radar etc etc, the 120 will lock on to you from pretty much it's max radar range, the sd10 - i'm not so sure. Also the angle of approach on the horizontal plane plays a role (search for ironmike's post where he details how the rwr is modelled for one of their aircrafts) and of course the vertical approach until someone goes through the trouble of gathering data this thread is kind of pointless as it's all anecdotal etc also, lots of people are complaining about RWRs at the moment, could be lag, some weird bug etc but doesn't make sense to dismiss all that - some of those people are ED testers i think (e.g. coxy)

also, it doesn't make sense to wait for your target to get to the no escape zone if you're head to head / just starting the engagement, you should be trying to get them to go defensive as soon as possible and then close in from a favourable angle, while they're busy dodging missiles you'll notice a little box with a number in it painted on the hud, over your target, the number inside that box (before you shoot) is the number of seconds a missile will need to get to your target, that number will change once you fire an sd10 and will start counting down to 0, if you lose the contact before it hits 0 or about that time, you're reducing the chances of your missile connecting (ideally obviously you never want to get to that situation, but the jf has some radar problems at the moment and doesn't make it easy on you), the reason for that is that the countdown you see is the countdown for the missile's own (independent) radar to turn on there's going to be an arrow (><^V) on one side of the box - arrow on the left means the target is within max range (you'll likely only get a hit if they're on a steady course towards you) - an arrow on the top means the target is outside the no escape zone - if you launch now, they'll have to actively defend/avoid - if they don't they're almost certainly going down - an arrow on the bottom of the designation box means that the target is within the no-escape zone, that means that your computer has calculated that the target is close enough that even if they're actively defending, your missile will have enough energy to perform at or near it's full potential (90% pk i think), this is the range, i think, based on your description, where you're firing your missiles (if you're firing at the shoot cue). Ideally you shouldn't be getting this close if your opponent is not already busy defending or out of fox 3's as you'll be fair game :) - arrow on the right means that the target is at the minimum range / you'll be too close and won't be able to fire soon the ranges mentioned in my previous post are pretty much on the 2nd range band - the missile will still be super-sonic-ish and whoever is looking at it's pointy end will have to be defending in order to avoid them also stt > tws unless you need the situational awareness

assuming no attitude changes, then it depends on your speed, the target's speed and the altitude you'll get about 12-15nm of usable-ish range (straight-ish shot - that's nm the missile will actually fly, not relative distances) from the sd10 at 10kft, 22-25 nm at 20k ft, 32-35nm at 30k ft (these are all at military or ab speeds) and get close to the range you're mentioning at 45k ft or so, this is with the missile flying straight obviously and no crazy winds etc here's some easy formulas to remember: mach * 10 = nm / min @ asl mach * 11 = nm / min @ 35k ft e.g. something moving at mach 1 will need 1 min to travel 11nm (about-ish) something moving at mach 2 will need 1 min to travel 22nm (about-ish) something moving at mach 3 will need 1 min to travel 33nm (about-ish) etc re speed delta/closure 10 kts is about 0.16nm/min 100 kts is about 1.6nm/min 1000 kts is about 16nm/min (i.e. after 1 min you'll be 16nm closer) if i lob an sd10 at someone 40nm away, who's at 30kft altitude and headed towards me @1000kts (get their speed from the radar or swap to tas and do closure - tas) and they maintain that course, after a little more than a minute they'll get an sd10 through the canopy, if the enemy airplane changes their attitude 45 degrees to the right (you can check their aspect on the radar), the moment i launch, the sd10 will never get anywhere near it etc

no - it only has inertial guidance, not precise enough for well precision strikes :P

and some footage from training / real world interceptions etc if you're interested to see how these systems work @Glacier @Harlikwin - yep - I was just trying to answer Glacier's question, not objecting to your point - you're right the DCS team have to think this through a bit more at some point - I did ask the DEKA team for a point defence system to be included in the CAP (https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=259887), i would guess if anyone is going to do it it's them :) I don't think the DCS team has any plans to review A/A at the moment - i guess they have higher priority items in their backlog, which is unfortunate as it would bump the challenge level in the game massively - oh well :)