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Does ED prefer we post user built missions here or at their user file upload spot reserved for missions, or does it matter? I have put together a number of interesting Ka50 missions and there's one in the upload section. It's easier simply to attach to a posting in this sub forum but the upload section can provide more information, it seems. Recommendations welcomed.

I'm going to re-inforce your inclination to get an X52 (preferably "Pro"). I have a lot of experience with this unit and also TM Warthog. IMO the Saitek is significantly better if you fly Ka50. On fixed-wing it may be another matter but the very stiff action of the TM stick combined with necessity to use pedals makes helicopter control problematic. The Saitek throttle section is excellent (like the TM). Where I fault it is in the fact it could have more programmable controls. For the price of a TM you can get three X52's. With my units I find no real evidence the TM is better made although it is certainly much heavier. To each his own, however. There will always be someone who has had a bad experience with one unit or another. IMO TM and Saitek both make fine products but for me the clear choice is Saitek.

With some rather good detective work by TM got my Warthog working. The problem was an improperly mounted DIN socket. I did the repair myself, following their instructions, with a good deal of dis-assembly. After many hours of practice I have gone back to Saitek X53-Pro. Here are the reasons (near in mind I fly Ka50). 1 - The Warthog joystick is way too stiff for delicate maneuvering more typical in a helicopter. I actually get a sore arm after awhile. The stick is, however, very smooth in operation. 2- The stick handle is solid metal and sucks heat out of your hand. I have osteo-arthritis and it becomes painful so need to wear a thin glove. 3 - There is no twist axis so you have to use pedals. I have two different sets of pedals and hate them both. The foot is simply no way as precise as the hand for fine rudder adjustments. When I fly A10 the pedals are fine but in a helicopter I find many missions impossible owing to the lack of precision in pedals (and I do know how to customize the profiles). From experience I know an X53 Pro will last a good 3 years with frequent use and longer if you replace the lubricant once in awhile. For the cost of one Warthog you can buy three X52 Pro's. A good combo is to use the TM left side (throttle unit) together with the Saitek Joystick. That way you get the precise X/Y/RZ action of the Saitek (along with a comfortable grip) and all those programmable switches on the TM. Either of the big axis controls on the TM makes an excellent collective - as good as the Saitek. In Ka50 with the Saitek I fly like a dragonfly. Using the TM units and pedals I am the blundering bumble-bee good in a straight line or a wide turn but severely compromised otherwise. FWIW.

This is a good question as it got me thinking about the differences between fixed-wing (f-w) and helicopter combat. I flew f-w for many years before Ka50 but got hooked and now fly nothing else. You already have some excellent responses so will just fill in a bit with my personal observations: 01 - It is essential to fully master the weird flight model. A f-w is very easy by comparison. You have to be able to transition quickly, easily and predictably amongst hover/forward/backward/sideways/up/down and funnel maneuvers. In my case an early error in thinking was to fly as if in a f-w ... mostly linear and fast (for a helo) with long, sweeping turns at higher altitude where a helicopter is a sitting duck even for rifle fire. The great strength of a helicopter lies in its 3D maneuverability at low speed and low altitude where it can find cover while springing some surprises on its victims. That should be the foundation of your tactics. I have put together a custom mission wherein the task is to defend a motorcade arriving from Adler airport for the Sochi Olympic Games. To succeed you have to hunt down terrorists with RPGs and IED remote triggers lurking amongst buildings. This mission would be impossible even to consider using f-w aircraft. In a Ka50 it's fun as you do your pop-ups, funnels and sideways strafing maneuvers while dodging the buildings and never getting above 60 km/h. 02 - Pay extra attention to the collective. It is a deceptively simple flight control. It took me awhile to discover that sensitive adjustment of the collective was as much an art to develop as use of the cyclic. My f-w experience caused me initially to think of it as a sort of throttle, which is a very limiting perception. After all, its mechanical motion couldn't be simpler. Small, frequent adjustments in combination with cyclic positioning will produce subtle maneuvers combining precise control of altitude with completely independent positioning in the horizontal plane ... something f-w's are incapable of. Because you don't have much speed, exact positioning is essential to mission success with complex interaction between cyclic and collective being the key. 03 - Get comfortable with unguided rockets. The Vikhr is fantastic for stand-off engagements and perfect for cleaning out deadly AAA units at a safe distance but rockets are devastating closer-in. They're tricky because you have to factor in their drift owing to motion of the helicopter but with lots of practice you learn to compensate. You now have a surprisngly precise weapon which, unlike the Vikhr, can be fired in an instant and spattered around a considerable area to take out multiples. Some folks don't like rockets but I use them a lot. The biggest downside is how long it takes to get accurate with them. And don't forget the cannon. Slaved to the targeting system it is very effective at long range. At any range within its capability the rounds travel faster than rockets, making it highly suitable for when the target motion relative to yours is large. In summary: - Master the intricacies of helicopter flight until they become seond nature. The unit should feel like part of you. - Exploit the helicopter's peculiar strengths while avoiding the weaknesses. - Choose the right weapon for the occasion.

I have both the most recent Saitek X52 "Pro" and the much acclaimed "Warthog". This is my second Saitek, having worn out the original after 3 years very hard use. I love the light feel and almost total absence of "sticktion". It is perfect for "Black Shark". I am not so sure about the Warthog although efforts continue. It arrived with faulty assembly (corrected after remote assistance from TM which was very good). The heavy, "manly" feel of the stick might please some but I don't care for it. There is also "sticktion" - that stick-slide effect I dislike. There is no twist-stick axis available for rudder. I have a couple of high-end pedals systems but find the hand much more sensitive than the foot when it comes to controlling a precision maneuver. Saitek gives me this choice, TM does not. After many experiments I keep going back to Saitek X52 Pro. I much prefer it even before considering the fact it costs much less than one half the "hog". Warthog seems to me a good choice for the fixed-wing crowd (drop 2 bombs and run) where rudder/rotation effects are generally unimportant. Helicopter pilots require access to a lot of fine control or our machines will kill us for sure ;-) Saitek is better in that environment. FWIW.

Problem solved. Based upon photos I submitted TM determined the DIN socket in the Joystick base was improperly assembled. They sent fixup instructions. It wasn't easy but the thing now works. I am giving TM high marks for prompt and effective tech service - even during holiday season.

My experience may be the exception. I have had TM Warthog for about a week and cannot get it to work under Win 8 OR Win XP. There are persistent problems with the drivers that keep the joystick unit from being recognized at all and the throttle only partially. Same thing happens on 4 different PCs. TM tech support has been very prompt and they keep suggesting things - none of which works. I have wasted a lot of hours on this. The result is I am back to Saitek X52 Pro (the metal version). This is my second purchase of the product. I fly a lot and after 2 years the original started getting a bit sticky. The latest one cost only $160 and is also a pleasure to use. I use the DCS World profilers and there are no installation issues on any system. You plug it in and are good to go. It doesn't have the weight of the Warthog but the suction cups keep it absolutely solid. Axis controls are excellent - precise, predictable. Best of all, it works. I may yet get Warthog working as TM is still reviewing my documentation. To their credit they are extremely responsive and concerned. It's also possible both throttle and stick units are defective.

"Firmware is borked" sounds good to me. The firmware is supposed to come with the driver installation but there is no firmware updater in my TM folder like they say there should be. I have tried re-installing everything, several times but no updater found.

Yes, I did try this ... with both Throttle and Joystick in Win 8.1. Upon completion I see "bulk" driver for BOTH stick and throttle which is encouraging but neither unit is enumerated or accessible by TARGET or by DCS/Blackshark "Options". Device Manager informs me both units "working properly" and shows expected diver information. If I reboot, bulk driver for throttle disappears but DCS "Options" will now access the throttle *only* but neither of the actual throttle controls - just a couple of the switches. I get almost identical behaviour in Win XP except all the throttle switches and one of the throttle controls is accessible from the Windows gaming device configurator. The stick unit is not accessible but the driver appears in device manager. Very odd. I am hoping TM has a nice response for me tomorrow or next week.

Thanks Whartsell, I have tried that too. This morning I hauled out my old Win XP machine to experiment and get the exact same problem. Both the Joystick and the Throttle appear in the hardware list of Control Panel but there is only one bulk driver named which is for Joystick. The Joystick is not, however, recognized by TARGET but the Throttle is. In Control Panel the Throttle is not named - only present as an unnamed USB device. I then re-booted XP and neither device is present but XP now wants to search the Internet for drivers which it does not find (having tried this too). The HOTAS Bootloader is identified in XP's Device Manager but has an exclamation mark and the message says it is incorrectly configured. I discovered upon searching the Forum a couple of others having the exact same problem some time ago but no solutions ever reported by anyone. It is possible I now possess a rather expensive paperweight or conversation piece to set out on the coffee table ;-) It is temptng to think there is a hardware problem but as others have had the identical issue I'm not so sure.

Thanks to all so far ... Yes, I have tried other USB ports including USB 2.0. Device properties is clean except cannot get the Throttle side to show the "Bulk" driver". I strongly suspect a Win 8 incompatibility. It would be interesting to know if anyone else has TM Warthog working properly under Win 8. I have submitted a request to TM with my information and will report what they send me. It's the Holidays so can't expect anything soon. In the meantime I have Saitek which works perfectly ;-)

I am so smart (just kidding) I rarely have a problem with hardware but am struggling with this unit. I am used to the Saitek X52 Pro but thought it would be fun to try TM so ordered one. BTW my OS is now Win 8.1 under which DCS world and the Saitek work perfectly. Driver and software installation went smoothly. In Control panel I can see both the throttle and the stick but ... BOTH the TARGET utility and the DCS options panel see ONLY the throttle unit. I have tried the re-boot sequence recommend by TM but makes no difference. The throttle unit is unresponsive in the Windows gaming panel as well. I have done the usual uninstall.re-install of drivers, rebooting, etc. but the stick will not connect to anything. Any suggestions appreciated.

You can pretty much forget about throttle in a helicopter. For occasional adjustments just use they default keyboard assignment. I usually set mine one notch down from maximum and leave it there. This helps avoid an over-stress condition during hard maneuvering that can cause equipment failure. As someone else points out, you can assign the throttle control on your stick to collective. Mastering effective use of the collective is tricky. There is a tendency for newcomers to helicopter flight to forget about the collective and over-rely on the cyclic for making altitude and directional changes (as if flying a fixed wing aircraft) whereas the collective is crucial during such maneuvers to making precise adjustments and exploiting the 3D capabilities of the unit.

I've had this excellent unit for several years and it has endured frequent use. Recently the joystick began showing signs of wear with a lot of '"stick-slip" effect leading to jerky flight control inputs. Disassembly and re-smearing of lubricant in the obvious places inside the case made no difference. From the outside you will notice a steel shaft going up into the stick through a flange and then a bushing in the stick itself. At both places I applied a liberal amount of lithium grease spray you can get in an automotive supply store. That did the trick, restoring silky smooth operation. You have to work the stick around for awhile to spread the grease, then wipe up the excess. There was a chance the solvents in the grease could deteriorate the bushing which is probably nylon or some other plastic but this has proved not to be the case. Check the can. If it says OK for rubber you are probably safe. Anyway, figured there was nothing to lose. It's unlikely even the stick is worn - the original lubricant eventually works its way out leading to dry bearing surfaces. FWIW.

There's also some authentic "clunking" as landing gear locks into place and getting caught in your own vortex happens a bit more easily with a clear warning in the form of vibration rather than the unit just getting vague in response to controls.

I don't see anything special about the maneuvers in that video. In fact, some of it is pretty rough. As you acquire experience it will all seem very natural. To initiate a pure sideways motion roll a bit and offset the natural tendency for the helicopter to begin turning in that direction by applying some rudder in the opposite direction. Somewhat counter-intuitively (from a fixed wing pilot's perspective) increasing collective is part of how you can quickly slow down. Raise the nose while reducing collective (to stabilize altitude) then, as the helicopter assumes the new nose high attitude and just begins sinking, gradually increase collective. The rotor will now be applying thrust in reverse to the direction of travel while maintaining altitude. You'll stop in a hurry and can even begun backwards flight.

Hmmm ... so could be a matter of just waiting for another update. All other sounds including external (explosions etc) are OK and normal volume.

Anyone else experiencing this? Beginning with the 2nd last update the only radio chatter I get from my wingman is in Russian. With the latest release he is totally silent. I have inspected the options and everything looks OK. The Russian is fine but this "silent treatment" is a detriment to mission effectiveness.

Just to update my progress as the original poster ... It took a few days and some cursing but I am a hummingbird once again. The pedals are great. This is, indeed, the way to go. All the great advice was a big help. It's surprisingly difficult to exchange one reflex for another. I am trimming with the pedals "chained". This adds an additional complexity and not having a problem with it but it is more work. I will try the unchained method and see what happens.

Thanks for the great replies and advice. I feel encouraged now to persist. There has been a lot of improvement but this will evidently take significantly more time. I had learned through experience to turn down the axis friction but was cheating by leaving the twist-stick engaged. High time to go "cold turkey" with that.

Colleagues, I'd welcome commentary/experiences on the following: I have been flying Black Shark for a couple of years and become quite expert in any situation at handling the unit with Saitek Pro X52. A few days ago I decided to take another step toward authenticity and purchased the Saitek Pro Combat Rudder Pedals. Like every Saitek product I have used before this installed easily and works exactly as advertised. Very nice. Initially I found myself flying almost like a novice again. There was even some crash-and-burn. There is daily improvement but decoupling one's hand from the twist-stick and replacing those actions with foot movement represents a significant learning curve for now. I have some concern that the foot/leg mechanism is inherently far less precise than the hand at performing any delicate task. Will I be able, ultimately, to obtain the same precise control as I had with the twist stick? From any of you who have gone this route before me I would be interested in your findings. If I am likely to end up with a less precise reaction than formerly I'll be tempted to stick with the twist (while using the foot operated controls for something else) and avoid telling the purists ;-)

I experimented with one of my own high altitude missions and could not duplicate your problem although I see you have received some good suggestions in regard to icing. This is tricky with the multi-function switch. For the most demanding climbs, when doing my own missions, I specify a two-stage ingress: (1) Begin with a bare minimum of fuel and no weapons. This allows me easily to clear the highest mountain ranges. (2) Place a FARP with ammo storage and tent somewhat downslope on the other side - far enough you can take off with the added weight: that's where I land (landing practice is always useful anyway) to take on the fuel and weapons needed to complete the mission. FWIW.

A trivial question, perhaps, but I find as capability of the Mission Editor expands, the documentation lags. I cannot find a definition for this item. Just what is it "Player Can Drive" supposed to do?

I did some of my graduate work in AI so have an appreciation of the difficulties. Just the same, I hope ED can make significant improvements. There are many obvious shortcomings in this case although for the most part these are a source of humor as much as they are irritating. Here's another example from my latest mission ... A fire truck and an Icarus approach each other on the highway. They are defined "on road". To avoid an obstacle in his lane the truck now moves into the lane of the oncoming bus. To avoid a head-on collision both vehicles now idiotically turn off the highway on the same side. As each one is still blocking the other they now head away from the road at right angles, immediately side-by-side - almost touching. There now follows a mad race as each tries to get past the other. Neither will have the humility simply to slow down so both can make their turn. They continue in this hilarious competition cross-country for almost a kilometer until one is finally slowed down by an obstacle. They now turn and race back to the highway, cutting through yards and gardens, finally resuming their intended paths. My knees were buckling at this demonstration of childish hubris. I could write a book full of stuff like this. Anything can happen - and does. IMO the best combat AI was in the long gone Jane's FA/18. Almost everything worked in rational ways.

...... Hi Biba, It is my belief most, if not all, computer controlled units are on drugs. In one mission I have written vehicles approaching a bridge sometimes drive off the road, wade the river, then climb the bank to get back on the road - as if they find something dislikable about a bridge. Bus drivers are especially likely to prove "high" in this manner. They will often drive off the center of the bridge itself, plunging into the river with no damage, then crawl out for another try while approaching from the same direction. It can take 2 or 3 additional attempts before they manage to stay on the road and prove they can cross that bridge. In another instance, upon encountering an obstacle, an automobile begins driving furiously in tight circles on the highway, resembling a poisoned insect, then heads back the way he came. Eventually he gives up his journey and parks at the side of the road - possibly for a nap. It's actually quite amusing. I have learned the hard way not to trust any wingman. He will cheerfully fly into you from the back or descend on top of you so better keep your eye on him if you suspect he is snorting up. This crazed behavior is demonstrated only by units I place. Ones placed by the simulation (such as routine civilian traffic) act rationally. I generally find the computer controlled behaviors in this simulation rather odd - even bizarre - at best. Best result is obtained with unit competencies all set to "Excellent" although this is no guarantee of drug-free action.