crazyleggs

Holy crap! This thread is ridiculous. Give up the consiparcy theories and let ED distribute it the way they see fit. They have to protect their hard work somehow. Then if your still not happy with the product and protection system, you can leave the community and stay off the forum. It's just a darn game and ya know ya want it!

http://www.battlefront.com/products/dw/ I've pre-ordered my copy :wink:

I'm sure it's still a few years away but when it's a "homeland security" issue, things get fast tracked. Now if they could only come up with those darn X-Ray glasses...

http://www.canada.com/fortstjohn/story.html?id=efd2c5b8-e4b6-48cb-83ad-10b2d79023c3 Soon we'll have to wear some sort of IFF system so that Counter Terrorist Units don't take us out through walls.

I've downloaded most of the vids on that site. Truly incredible collection. That Thunderbird pilot made the right decision extremely quickly. Yikes! Great link Norm!

You guys are pissing me off! Instead of doing my work (trust me, it's piling up rapidly) I find myself reading your posts and getting sucked in. Great discussion as always. SK, you're totally right with Stimson's book. Introduction to Airborne Radar is a great ref for airborne EW and ECM techniques. As for TVM, Skolnik's book reveals how TVM initially worked. TVM in newer air defense systems works differently. False targets are just one of many ways to jam a radar. If the jammer is turned on after the fighter already has hits on you, false targets will increase his work load but he is still able to target you. On the other hand, if the jammer is on before the fighter paints you, he will see a bunch of targets (they can be random, line astern, line abreast, etc) and will need third party targetting (GCI, AWACS, Link) to sort you out of the targets. One thing you have to remember is that it's always harder to fool a human than a computer. New digital radars which need processors to handle all the incoming data are succeptible to corrupt data. If you can find a way to screw with the processor then your chances of denying that fighter pilot his radar picture is great. On the other hand, if you have an A-Scope in front of you, you can see exactly what the jammer is trying to do to your poor radar. In other words, although software is always evolving, a digital radar will never be immune to jamming. Barker coding is a form of pulse compression. It enables both long detection ranges and increased range resolution without needing extra power (range) and extremely narrow pulses (resolution). It is the received pulsed that is "compressed" into a small segment thus providing a higher peak amplitude. A 3 bit code will provide three times the amplitude and so on. Stimson's book explains this very well. If you're interested in radar and ECM, Stimson's book is a must. Thanks for bringing that up SK. Thanks.

A grey camo will let you "blend in" to some extent with the ambient light or tone of the surrounding sky. It will make the difference of being spotted visually at around 5-7 nm (or less) in a light sky and grey camo vice 8-10 nm (or more in some cases) in a light sky and dark color or camo.

That's just too funny! Gotta love computers. Have a good weekend everyone and look for a Mig-29 @ 40+K waiting to soak up some missiles tonight! crazyleggs

Countries that can afford to purchase "ECM Suites" for their aircraft have systems that tie in the RWR with the SPJ and countermeasure dispensers (chaff and/or flares and/or decoys). This suite will counter the threat by selecting the appropriate mode for the SPJ and the correct amount of countermeasures to deploy. It's fully automatic and fully expensive too. As far as the SU-35 proto, that's pretty cool but I'm sure the pilot will turn that feature off as soon as a false alarm triggers it and his head get's bashed in the canopy. RWRs aren't perfect! As far as displaying info goes, it can be overwhelming in a saturated EW environment. That's why display filters are used in RWRs (LOMAC does that in a simple way, Shift-R). The future displays will integrate RWR info with own radar hits to give an overall picture. I'm pretty sure that's what the almighty F/A-22 Raptor does. Thanks.

First thing to keep in mind is that there are many different Western RWRs that work in different ways. Some display lethality by comparing signal strength (just like that AN/APR-36 in your last post) and some by the mode the radar is in (like the ALR-67). When the APR-36 was in use it was generally correct to assume that the higher the signal strength, the more danger you were in. That is just not the case anymore. In the ALR-67's case, it compares radar modes with it's library and then places the radar/threat on the appropriate ring. For example, when you come up on an SA-8 and if he's dumb enough to be radiating constantly in search, you will see an 8 pop up in the inner non lethal ring in the approximate azimuth. As he steps through his kill chain, you will see his symbol make its way outwards to the critical ring. You are right, most RWRs will show a flashing symbol when a shot is taken and only use two rings. But that is not always the case. The difference between fighters and ELINT aircraft is the the later has time to accurately triangulate emitter's positions. Fighters usually don't. That said, newer fighter RWRs most likely have the capability (computing power and sensitivity) to accurately measure azimuth and range. As I said, there are many Western RWRs all with their own way of working. Although LOMAC may not be totally accurate, I think it does a great job with the Western RWRs anyways. Thanks.

Same thing happened to me the other night while diving away from incoming SU-27s. The problem is that the water texture used in the game is too calm. i.e. there's no way to gauge your height, no relief when looking directly at it. Float plane flyers use the horizon ahead and to either side to gauge height during an approach in calm waters. A texture with whitecaps would help as they would grow in size as you descend. I've flown many hours over the ocean and it's always easier to judge altitude in stormy conditions vice calm conditions.

Without getting into specifics, some Western RWRs show the threat on the inner ring and others on the outer. The advantages of displaying a threat on the outer is that it gives you better angle of arrival definition. Also, it is difficult for RWRs to display range as most radars have different power settings. That's why most fighter RWRs show Search, Threat & Launch on rings vice relative range. Now on the dedicated ELINT gatherers that's a different story. As for the S-300+ series, when you get an acq and/or tracking radar associated with it you make sure you avoid that area. Plain and simple. It's way too dangerous to confront. For gameplay, although not realistic I agree that a missile launch tone would make things easier. Just as long as the map isn't littered by S-300s!

I didn't make myself clear in my last post. You obviously won't care if your friendly Patriot is searching around you when you're flying. That is unless you do not have a functionning or miscoded mode IV IFF. That mode IV is a go-nogo item. It is coded and checked on the ground prior to each mission by ground personnel and again in flight when checking in with your ground controller or AWACS. There should be no aircraft operating in theatre without proper IFF. (Spec Ops might not have IFF turned on but will be on the Air Tasking Order) One person utters "lock on" and the media pounces on it. The media is not known for their military events reporting accuracy. I'm really curious what happened here. A Patriot is a Patriot, a no brainer for the RWR and HTS. It was either done intentionally or he had a finger problem. Might be something totally different too. It's interesting how the devs get these RWR indications when they are classified secret. The indications are not always correct in sims and do not reflect real world RWRs as their software/databases are always updated. Missile guidance signals of the SA-2 and Patriot are sent totally differently. Like I said earlier, we can come up with our own theories but we will never know the actual facts till the report is released. This is a great discussion though! BTW, my points are made with utmost respect, no flaming intended. This is a very knowledgeable community with great ideas and insight. Thanks.

Detection of Patriot or S-x00 FC radars on RWR means time to action. There's no indication of launch and you do not keep droning in. I can't see how the HTS on the CJ would target a Patriot that had a "lock on" (impossible) and launch a HARM. Most likely human error but who knows.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img002/sa2-radar.jpg http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/airdef/v-75.htm There are many variants of the Fan Song radar which provides FC to the Guideline missiles. In the first pic, this Fan Song provides tracking in elevation and azimuth with the two through antennas in a TWS mode. The two parabollic antennas on top provide illumination for the SA-2 and the parabolic antenna to the side provides missile guidance. Some variants do not have the illuminators and have different simultaneous tracking and engagement numbers. As far as the Patriot is concerned, there should be no difference in search, track and launch in the signal. What truly happened between the F-16 CJ and that Patriot battery will only be known once the report becomes declassified. That might take a while...

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/showthread.php?t=241&page=1&pp=20 Eight long pages on this subject along with a ton of other crap. Let's not go that route.

You can't really make anything of the outcome as there were severe training restrictions imposed on the US side. They would really like more F-22s... Also, as britgliderpilot said, main thing learned here is to never underestimate your opponent. A common mistake by Western AirForces.

Timeframe is not really an issue. Deliberate noise jamming against radar has been around since early 40s and deception jamming a little later on. The important thing is that a modern day fighter SPJ will use both noise and deception jamming depending on the situation. Also, the techniques generated and the parameters the SPJ uses are kept up to date based on current threats. So your techniques might be old school but if the parameters are correct, you will be effective. Hope this helps.

When a SARH missile is launched against you in its normal mode you will always get an audio and visual launch indication on your RWR. When the SARH missile leaves the rail, the supporting radar (i.e. shooter's AI radar) switches modes to provide the missile seeker head with homing info. The RWR picks up that radar mode change and it's parameter library figures out that the radar is in a missile support mode. It is not picking up the data link per say, just the radar mode. That's why you get a launch indication. In a HOJ mode, you will not get a launch indication. You might get a lock indication if the shooter locks your jamming strobe close to your actual range. That is why you shouldn't drone around with ECM on all the time. Eventually, you will get a missile right in the face without warning. ECM comes in handy with maneuvres to defeat lock ons and shots. As far as TWS goes, you're SOL. If you listen to your RWR (Russian) carefully, you can tell if the offender (F-15) is in TWS or RWS. (I think it is modeled in the sim, but not sure). So if you know he's in TWS and you know his range, take appropriate action to try to defeat any shots that might be in the air because if he shoots an AMRAAM in TWS, you won't know it's coming at you till it goes active. That's bad. My comments pertain to real life and the sim. ED has done a good job making it real while keeping systems fairly simple IMHO. The only thing I find is too simplyfied is the ECM. It seems to be noise only (dumb jamming) and not a full SPJ suite. But on the other hand, if SPJ was truly simulated it would be much harder to get a kill. Thanks, can't wait for 1.1 !

The RCS from a front aspect target will always be higher than any other aspect due to the fan/turbine blades. That's why an aircraft such as the B-1 has ducting vanes in front of the ehgines. It greatly reduces RCS. As far as doppler goes, most doppler radars have different modes depending on the ranges it looks for targets. As a general rule, for long ranges the PRF increases to get a better doppler definition. This is where the notch comes in handy, no matter what airframe you are flying in or against. Depending on the radar, a notch as low as 60 deg aspect may be good enough to break lock and or disappear (when not locked). The best bet for a defender is to notch and change in elevation to make life miserable for the attacker. The attacker on the other hand, has to reposition for better aspect based on his best guess to re-acquire. For shorter range engagements, generaly a pulse doppler radar will change to a lower PRF to gain better range definition. This is where a notch has to be executed perfectly to be effective. It's effectiveness is based on timing, angle of arrival accuracy (RWR) and what gate the attacker's radar is set on. On another note, if you fly online with a Mig-29 and R77s you can be quite effective visually. Fly low, keep scanning the sky around you, and keep that radar off. Most of the time, they'll never see you coming. Most of the time... Thanks.