CCIP Invalid

I nearly always use Ramp Start for a mission and with the Beta's had no real problem. Since the release of the final version I can't seem to use the CCIP bombing mode as there is no dashed Projected Bomb Image Line PBIL also CCIP Invalid is displayed on the HUD.

This only happens when I start from the ramp so I'm obviously doing something wrong or in a wrong order, although I am using the official manual for starting. On page 392 of the manual it really only talks about this problem for guns.

I have CDU Nav mode selected with EAC switch to Arm, all the switches on the AHCP are ON or ARM.

Can't see what I'm doing wrong ?

Attaching a track could help, to give you a precise answer.

What is the altitude of the active waypoint or markpoint? Also, what is the min alt setting for your weapons in DSMS profiles? Basically, if you are below the altitude where you are currently telling the DSMS that the target is, it'll deny the shot.

Try setting a new markpoint on the target through tgp or through HUD, select Func + Mark on the UFC, then select that markpoint. Then prosecute the target.

Basically, if you are below the altitude where you are currently telling the DSMS that the target is, it'll deny the shot.

In CCIP? How does it know my target? ;) :P

push M a few times and it'll go away

In CCIP? How does it know my target? ;) :P

How is it supposed to calculate and impact point without elevation data? ;)

How is it supposed to calculate and impact point without elevation data? ;)

What EtherialN said; CCIP computes the weapon impact point on the ground, not necessarily of your target...

I kinda think it got elevation data stored somewhere, CDU perhaps?

How does it place a markpoint on the correct altitude, i.e. in TAD, if it doesn't know what altitude should that be?

Read my previous post.

If your currently selected point is at 10 000 feet, you are telling the system that you are going for something at 10 000 feet. If you are at 5 000 feet the system will wonder how you plan to make a bomb fall up.

That's the thing - through having such a point active, you are actively confusing the bejeezuz out of the targeting computer. (Manual, SPI.)

Maybe I'm just blind, but I don't remember manual mentioning that setting the SPI near the target area is neccessary for CCIP bomb delivery.

edit: made a quick missiom, with first waypoint beeing at 25000ft, selected as SPI, I had no problem to deliver my cbu97 in CCIP, and they hit spot on.

No, but if you place yourself in a situation where your steerpoint becomes your SPI, and your steerpoint is at 10 000 feet...

THAT is the point. Steerpoint SPI, Steerpoint high up, You low, CCIP confused.

Thanks for your replies.

The altitude has given me something to think about, when I use CCIP I normally have SPI set to steerpoint, unless I've selected a target for another reason.

If I confirm its altitude that's causing the problem I'll reply back in this post.

Care to comment on this track then? I'm at +/- 6k feet, SPI is at 25k feet (I slaved my tgp to spi, just to be sure), no problem with CCIP.

Unfortunately I cannot watch your track - I don't have that version installed at the moment.

I did however go for a spin right now, single steerpoint at 12 000 feet. Select it, select Mk82 profile, select CCIP, dive below... CCIP invalid. Lower steerpoint altitude to below my altitude (or climb back up) and CCIP is valid again. (Though I miss horribly if I try to aim with it, because it thinks the ground is somewhere where it simply isn't.)

Heh, weird :)

So, what I'm getting from this is that you definitely want to assign an SPI on the ground near the target you are trying to drop on as the altitude of the SPI will be fed into the CCIP calculator?

Generally speaking, the more information you have on the target - and the more precise it is, the better. But yes, for dumb munitions it is definitely good to SPI the target, since even a minor error can cause you to miss. (And besides, there's also the practical aspect of making it easier to re-acquire the target(s) if you are forced to break off the attack or fail to destroy it.)

I'm looking into the exact way that it works though, need to confirm a few minor question marks.

I have had a problem like this as well, and though I am not exactly sure why this fix works, or what it does it has fixed the issue for me. Look at your steerpoint on the hud information. Use the UFC to select the info for elevation on the hud it should begin to flash and then use the UFC data selection rocker to change the info until it reads DTS. When starting in the air it is set to DTS, but on a ramp start it defaults to an elevation reading. Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by E61-v1T1

The solution for CCIP Invalid is;

- HUD SOI,

- From UFC Panel:

"Pg DATA" Down (at HUD, lower right corner, it shows the elevation of "steerpoint" flashes)

- Use "SEL" to change it to DTS

End of problem

Greetings

Edit

Hi Ginsu80

I think you have found the answer :thumbup:

I tried the Instant Action mission Easy-East Georgia-Spring and the Steerpoint info in the HUD did say DTS next to the miles to go, with no CCIP Invalid displayed in the HUD.

I then tried a Ramp Start mission, and as you described the Steerpoint ELEVATION was indicated on the HUD and not DTS - in my case 20m/6560. The CCIP Invalid was present all the time during the climb until I went through about 6400 ft then it disappeared. If I descended below 6560 it came back again. I continued flying at 4000 ft and tried the procedure you described on the UFC, when it displayed DTS the CCIP Invalid warning disappeared.

I don't remember this happening with the Beta's so there may have been a setting changed during the Release version. What is this supposed to read Elevation or DTS ?

I think it may be important to really read what EtherealN is saying... listen to the man, he's trying to help...

DTS being active for elevation is telling the system to figure elevation from information derived from the Data Transfer System.

Your making this much more complicated than it needs to be. Under normal circumstances when you're aligned and your preflight config has been done properly, getting a CCIP invalid when you're below the elevation of your SPI is normal. Like EtherealN said, you're telling the computer to calculate how to drop a bomb up. Here's a few questions you should ask yourself:

*Why am I in CCIP mode instead of NAV mode when flying to a steerpoint

*When on target, why not make it the Sensor Point of Interest? That's what it's for...

The fact that you don't want your targeting computer to say invalid firing solution when you're below your SPI, is like saying to your doctor "Doc, I have this problem seeing clearly... when my eyes are closed."

I hate to sound harsh, but seriously folks...

Stongharm makes a good point, but if my understanding is correct the DTS system is using elevation information based on the current position of the aircraft according to information loaded during the mission start up. I agree that using a SPI is the best option as it gives range/elevation data on the current target and is the most accurate. However, if you are doing a mission with no TGP, and the elevation for the nearest WP is not ground level wouldn't the DTS setting be the best option? I have to admit I have just defaulted to selecting DTS but I dont' want to do that if it isn't in keeping with the actual procedures.

I just thought of this, even without a TGP you could make the HUD SOI and use the hud cursor to set a mark and use that as your SPI, if I am correct that will give updated elevation information even without a TGP. I'll have to give it a try later tonight.

thx a lot

When starting in the air it is set to DTS, but on a ramp start it defaults to an elevation reading. Hope this helps.

So, now I understand where is that difference. And why I was able to employ cbu in that track without any problems.

tbh, I don't use CCIP much, so this was really bogling me.

A-10C is NOT A-10A anymore... just got through all the training missions again (for the 8th time) and this bird has a mix of the past and future is one ugly airframe.

I nearly always use Ramp Start for a mission and with the Beta's had no real problem. Since the release of the final version I can't seem to use the CCIP bombing mode as there is no dashed Projected Bomb Image Line PBIL also CCIP Invalid is displayed on the HUD.

 

This only happens when I start from the ramp so I'm obviously doing something wrong or in a wrong order, although I am using the official manual for starting. On page 392 of the manual it really only talks about this problem for guns.

 

I have CDU Nav mode selected with EAC switch to Arm, all the switches on the AHCP are ON or ARM.

 

Can't see what I'm doing wrong ?

Not sure what all can possibly cause this as of yet, but I know one thing that will. I was trying to drop a CBU the other night and realized my HUD was not set to SOI. Once I had set the HUD to SOI, everything worked as advertised.. Just a couple of cents worth there...:thumbup:

EDIT: My apoligies.. I missed the post above, this was already covered.

Generally speaking, the more information you have on the target - and the more precise it is, the better. But yes, for dumb munitions it is definitely good to SPI the target, since even a minor error can cause you to miss. (And besides, there's also the practical aspect of making it easier to re-acquire the target(s) if you are forced to break off the attack or fail to destroy it.)

 

I'm looking into the exact way that it works though, need to confirm a few minor question marks.

Even if you've assigned SPI on the target, if your current steerpoint has an elevation higher than your altitude, you will still get CCIP invalid