How do you set the TGP to the ground under an elevated SP?

For some reason, I'm just not getting this.....

I try to fly the weapons training mission but I run into the same problem and can't seem to get past it.

In this mission, the steerpoints mark targets on the ground, however, the SP themselves are in the air. When I slave the TGP to the steerpoint, it points into the air. How do I get it to slew to the point under the SP so I can seek out the targets there?

The HUD shows the steerpoints as 'DTS', yet I see an elevation of 9000' + in the CDU. What am I missing?

Apparantly the mission creator set the waypoints in the air insted of on the ground.

Best bet is to edit the waypoints, only takes a few seconds once you know how to do it.

Find your way to the Waypoint screen on the CDU: (my favorite is to select STEER with the PAGE knob, then click the LSK/OSB for WAYPOINT)

This will place you on the waypoint editing page, and if you just RE-ENTER one of the GPS Coordinates into the scratch pad, exactly as it already appears, and hit the relevant LSK it will automajically adjust the waypoint to the ground elevation!

Easy!

I was struggling with this as well--I think it has to do with how waypoints are set in mission editor under advanced waypoint properties. Another quick fix is to go to Waypoint screen on the CDU, and change elevation to zero. The points in the air help with vertical navigation, i.e., what altitude you should be at for a given waypoint. Got me thinking--can data cartridges have MARK points pre-loaded, so if you wanted to attack a building at a known location, the mark point would already be there--and then you just slew over it to make it your SPI?

As sunshine says, if you re-enter a latitude or longitude or MGRS coordinate then coordinate ranging (CR) will snap the waypoint down to the DTSAS surface elevation. You might also make an offset mark point from HUD SOI at the steerpoint and that mark will be on the DTSAS surface.

The DTS or #### shown on the HUD is your CCIP elevation source, either hot elevation (manually entered) or automatically to the DTSAS surface.

WP are navigational points, they are not there for finding targets.

There are multiple solutions to this. I find making markpoints via TAD practical because.. (TAD comes in color :D)

After putting a markpoint above the WP (with TMS-right-short), you change AAP to MKpoints.

Another quick fix is to go to Waypoint screen on the CDU, and change elevation to zero.

Careful here, if you change the waypoint's elevation to 0, and the waypoint is actually 500ft above sea level, your TGP will focus on a position in space taht is 500ft below the ground.

Therefore, it will be unreliable for looking at a target on the ground at the given waypoint.

We all know there are training missions with the targets at waypoints.

yikes--I'll stick to adding markpoints via the tad

The mission designer can add mission WP's in the editor, which are separate from the nav WP's.

I was struggling with this as well--I think it has to do with how waypoints are set in mission editor under advanced waypoint properties. Another quick fix is to go to Waypoint screen on the CDU, and change elevation to zero. The points in the air help with vertical navigation, i.e., what altitude you should be at for a given waypoint. Got me thinking--can data cartridges have MARK points pre-loaded, so if you wanted to attack a building at a known location, the mark point would already be there--and then you just slew over it to make it your SPI?

Slew the targeting pod around until the diamond symbol covers the waypoint on the TAD.

More advanced "trick" is to hook the steerpoint on the TAD, make it SPI and slave tgp to it. I use this when someone broadcasts his SPI.

This is what I do:

Slew the TGP to the steerpoint, than slew down. It takes 2 sec to do that and by doing that you may also discover some ground targets ahead.

"Mark" is by far the best solution. TMS Right/Short over the nav WP in your TAD, switch your steerpoint dial from "Flightplan" to "Mark" and you're done. Messing about editing waypoints is just not necessary and slewing down from nav altitude is imprecise and time-consuming.

This is what I do:

Slew the TGP to the steerpoint, than slew down. It takes 2 sec to do that and by doing that you may also discover some ground targets ahead.

This is not so well because you can't tell where "down" is (you only have a direction). You can still do it by comparing the TGP diamond on the TAD with the WP symbol to get to the position on the ground, but that will take more than 2 seconds and it's not precise.

This is not so well because you can't tell where "down" is (you only have a direction). You can still do it by comparing the TGP diamond on the TAD with the WP symbol to get to the position on the ground, but that will take more than 2 seconds and it's not precise.

This game is not for impatient people. Besides, operating with tgp is something you do for most of the time anyway, unless someone else pinpoints ground targets for you.

This game is not for impatient people. Besides, operating with tgp is something you do for most of the time anyway, unless someone else pinpoints ground targets for you.

I don't understand how is this related with I said.

"Mark" is by far the best solution. TMS Right/Short over the nav WP in your TAD, switch your steerpoint dial from "Flightplan" to "Mark" and you're done. Messing about editing waypoints is just not necessary and slewing down from nav altitude is imprecise and time-consuming.

Have to agree with Bahger. This is a quick, yet effective method. Each of the solutions posted is valid and will work as well, just depends upon the situation.

Good thread!

There are three ways to do it that I know of.

Ranked in order of user-friendliness (in my opinion) they are: 1. Use the TAD to create a markpoint over the waypoint (WP) of interest (as per asparagin's suggestion), 2. slew a sensor that is set as SPI around on the ground beneath the WP until it overlays the WP on the TAD (as per PlainSight's suggestion), and 3. re-enter the coordinates into the CDU (as per sunshine_db's suggestion).

Here are some detailed instructions for the first two techniques:

Technique 1

1. Set the TAD as SOI.

2. Slew the TAD cursor until it is exactly in the center of the WP of interest.

3. Create a markpoint using TMS Right Short (TMS R S). The markpoint will be created at ground level wherever the TAD cursor is positioned, in this case directly beneath the WP of interest.

4. Change the steerpoint (STPT) mode to markpoint using the AAP (toggle the knob) or UFC (press the FUNC key, then the MARK key). The TAD will now only be displaying whatever markpoints you have created.

5. Hook the markpoint of interest with TMS F S.

6. Make the hooked markpoint SPI with TMS F L.

7. Slave your sensors to the SPI using China Hat FWD Long (CH FWD L).

8. Your TGP and MAV will now be looking at the ground directly beneath the WP of interest.

9. You can now change the STPT mode back to Flight Plan using the AAP or UFC if you wish.

As an aside, PlainSight, the following is not a correct method for looking at the ground beneath a WP as far as I can tell:

More advanced "trick" is to hook the steerpoint on the TAD' date=' make it SPI and slave tgp to it. I use this when someone broadcasts his SPI.[/quote']

 

This procedure will hook and set the WP as SPI, but because the WP's altitude is still set according to the flight plan, the SPI and any sensors slaved to it will be 'in the air'. Plainsight, please clarify and correct me if I'm wrong here. :)

 

Technique 2

 

PlaninSight recommends using the TGP, but you can also use the Target Designation Cursor (TDC) on the HUD as a rough means of getting 'close enough' to the ground underneath a WP. In fact, I prefer to use the TDC as it slews the fastest and is the easiest to see.

 

My method is as follows:

 

1. Ensure that your current SPI is set to STPT (bottom left corner of HUD). If it is not, use TMS AFT Long (TMS AFT L) to reset SPI to STPT.

2. Make the waypoint you are interested in your STPT by selecting it using the UFC rocker or DMS up and down. Fly towards the STPT.

3. Slave your sensors to the SPI (which is the currently selected STPT as per step 2) using CH FWD L.

4. Your sensors are now slaved to the STPT of interest. This includes the TDC because technically the TDC is a sensor.

5. With HUD as SOI, slew the TDC down to the ground directly beneath the STPT. The TDC will 'appear' out of the STPT as you slew directly down because it was slaved to the SPI (the current STPT) in step 3.

6. When the TDC reaches the ground and achieves a valid solution (not 'crossed out'), make it SPI with TMS FWD L.

7. Observe the TAD. Keep moving the TDC directly down until the SPI 'wedding cake' is overlaid on the STPT.

8. The SPI is now directly beneath the STPT. You can now slave sensors to the SPI (TGP, MAV etc.).

 

You can also just fly directly towards the STPT and boresight the TDC using CH AFT Short (CH AFT S) with HUD as SOI. This skips slaving the TDC to the STPT, but relies on you flying as straight as possible towards the STPT. If you don't fly directly towards the STPT you will have to move the TDC left and right in order to get it in the right position.

 

Hopefully this helps, Hogger73.

Is it possible to switch to 2D navigation? Haven't experimented with that, but it might be a quick way.

 

Technique 1

 

1. Set the TAD as SOI.

2. Slew the TAD cursor until it is exactly in the center of the WP of interest.

3. Create a markpoint using TMS Right Short (TMS R S). The markpoint will be created at ground level wherever the TAD cursor is positioned, in this case directly beneath the WP of interest.

4. Change the steerpoint (STPT) mode to markpoint using the AAP (toggle the knob) or UFC (press the FUNC key, then the MARK key). The TAD will now only be displaying whatever markpoints you have created.

5. Hook the markpoint of interest with TMS F S.

6. Make the hooked markpoint SPI with TMS F L.

7. Slave your sensors to the SPI using China Hat FWD Long (CH FWD L).

8. Your TGP and MAV will now be looking at the ground directly beneath the WP of interest.

9. You can now change the STPT mode back to Flight Plan using the AAP or UFC if you wish.

You rock! Thanks, this will help me a lot!

Wow, great replies and community here! Thanks guys, I think I've got what I need to get past this. Now to give it a go.... :thumbup:

You rock! Thanks, this will help me a lot!

No problem. Glad to help. :thumbup:

By the way, you can also simplify my instructions a little if you experiment.

For example, once the markpoint has been created and you have the STPT mode set to markpoint, technically you don't need to hook the markpoint and make it your SPI in order to slave your TGP to it. As long as you have the correct markpoint selected you can immediately slave the TGP to the markpoint by using CH AFT L (CH AFT L slaves the TGP to the current steerpoint).

This is because markpoints are still actually both waypoints and steerpoints (to be clear: a steerpoint is just the currently selected waypoint). A convenient way to think about it is that when you change the STPT mode, you are just 'telling' the avionics what you want to use as waypoints and your steerpoint. You can 'tell' the avionics to display and use the flight plan as your set of waypoints and steerpoint, and you can 'tell' the avionics to display and use markpoints as your set of waypoints and steerpoint.

Therefore, if you set the dial to 'flight plan' it will allow you to cycle through the flight plan waypoints and set a steerpoint accordingly, and if you set it to 'markpoint' it will allow you to cycle through the markpoint waypoints and set a steerpoint accordingly.

So, when in markpoint mode, you can simply cycle through the markpoints just like you would do in flight plan mode. And because the selected markpoint is the current STPT, you can immediately slave the TGP to it using CH AFT L and save yourself a bit of time!