Force Feedback

Using a MSFFB2 stick with the Mi8 module.

I had the FF working correctly ie move the stick, press trim button, stick stays in that position.

Pressing the keyboard radio key (next to enter) caused the stick forces to invert.

The FF Tune menu remained the same. Toggling the options got the FF working again.

I haven't tried this with other modules yet.

EDIT - Just tried the Huey and the same result.

Sounds like there is a key conflict going on. Did you do a 'clean' open beta install, or did you move config files over from the 1.2.X install?

Hi OnlyforDCS,

This was a clean update from old beta - clean installed last week, no modules.

I installed 1.5 this morning and updated the modules through the manager.

Win 7 BTW.

Key conflict sounds possible. I haven't altered any assignments in those modules but you never know. I'll look more this evening.

Found a few minutes to play (couldn't resist another go).

Looks like my changes under the FF Tune don't take until the radio key (keyboard or joystick) has been pressed once.

There don't seem to be any conflicts between the trim and radio commands.

I'll have to see if anyone else gets this. Probably just me.

I had some problems with my FFB2 at first as well. It turned out that the button I was using for Trim (mapped to T with Xpadder) was also mapped directly to Trim in DCS. Now I've cleared all the button mappings in DCS it seems to be working OK.

As with v1.2.16 I have to tick "Swap Axis". Before I unmapped the buttons, that didn't help but for some reason ticking "Invert X" and "Invert Y" instead did make it work, at least until I re-opened the Controls settings but it seems that was just down to having the button mapped to Trim in two different ways.

I don't know if this is the right place but in the light of 1.5 force feedback issues:

In the UH-1H when starting a new flight the game resets the invert x axis FF setting although the setting in the control menu remain ticked.

This also happens when in the simulation you switch from the pilot position (1) to the co-pilot position (2) and also when switching from co-pilot (2) to the pilot position (1).

it can be solved by:

- enter control menu

- uncheck invert x axis in FF tuning

- exit control menu

- enter control menu

- recheck invert x axis in FF tuning

- exit control menu.

Now the FF axis are set-up correctly again but only until you switch to another position in the aircraft or start a new flight. The FF tuning will still be listed as inverted on the axis, but the behaviour changes regardless.

Hi Derk,

I just checked my install and I'm having the same thing when changing cockpit seat also. Obviously didn't use those keys when I tried a few other commands earlier!

Can you check your end if the radio key also makes it happen?

Thanks!

Yes of course.

That's confirmed: using the radio communication menu button also inverts the FF x-axis. Or rather returns it to its uninverted state. This is a recurring issue, every time the position is switched or the radio menu is opened it resets to default (uninverted).

Control options menu still lists it as being inverted though.

BTW: i also use a MS Sidewinder FFB2. It would be nice to know if this also happens on other FFB devices. ie the returning from inverted to default state of the x-axis force feedback setting at the mentioned situations.

Nice to see it's not just me!

Hopefully others will see this thread and comment, especially if their FF joystick does not have this issue.

I'm using a sidewinder FFB2 and also have this issue...

Hi Boris, thanks for posting.

I'm thinking it might be just MSFFB2 with the problem.

Hopefully we can have a fix.

That remains to be seen as noone with a g940 or other FFB device has reported on these settings yet. I am quite certain that if these settings were tried with other devices (though that may be an incorrect setup for those to fly with), the resulting behaviour of losing settings will be the same.

The MSFFB2 might be the only joystick that needs the swap FFB axis and invert FFB X axis settings to hold due its construction, but it is the software that fails to keep these settings under all conditions.

I can understand how switching between aircraft positions would be able to affect this, but i am curious how the radio menu is able to cause a similar effect.

As g940 User i had no Problems so far.

As a FFB2 user I haven't had any problems so far. (Tested with P51D, Mig21Bis and L39C) I haven't installed the Mi8 or Huey modules in the beta yet (even though I do own them) so this might be a problem specific to those modules?

I tested a bit more:

The problem also occurs with the ka-50 when using the radio menu. i can program the y-axis ff settings and they will hold, it is only the x-axis in the settings that defaults back to original settings behaviour, the settings window still lists it as being inverted.

This means that if you have "swap axis" ticked in the ff tuning menu the effect will translate to the y-axis on the joystick instead.

So it is only the "invert x-axis" setting behaviour that is affected by this bug.

EDIT:

This behaviour also extends to other airframes. Though not noticable during normal play because the forces are applied correctly to the joystick in their default settings, if you swap the forces axis and invert the x-axis ff, you get an inverted y-axis ff behaviour on the stick, wich is the most noticable force while flying and thus most suitable for testing. now if you open the radio menu while pulling on the stick you will notice the forces changing.

This leads me to conclude that the problem is dcs wide and not module related.

After today's update FF on my FFB2 isn't working at all. I tested with the KA-50 and Uh-1H and with both, trimming with T I hear the click but it doesn't trim and the controls indicator shows that the stick is trimmed to the centre position.

I tested both with "Swap Axis" (which is what works for me with 1.2.16) and with both axis inverted instead.

Hmm, now it seems to be working OK mostly.

I'm only using Swap Axis as that's what works in Stable and now it seems to work in OB. Tested with both the KA-50 and Uh-1H. I did clear all the button mappings for all my devices (not keyboard) though, so anyone who's still having trouble might want to try that. I just have a few joystick buttons mapped to keyboard commands with Xpadder for now but you can just press T to test the trim.

I also had to unmap my Edtracker device from pitch, yaw, rudder, throttle again (for each aircraft), even though I did that already last time I tested. It seems to think it's a new device each time and keeps adding it back but I'll see if it happens again next time I test.

The Mi-8 was a different story though. That didn't respond to my FFB2 or Saitek pedals at all, no response even on the Control View. I haven't really used the Mi-8 much though, so just did the Auto Startup and maybe there's something else that's needed to engage the controls?

Reporting as a G940 and MSFFB2 owner. I have been using the G940 without issue, but tried out the MSFFB2 today, and was just about to report the bug when I found this thread.

I can confirm, I haven't had any FFB issue with the G940, but get the reversal bug with the MSFFB2 as previously described in the thread (switch position, or start a new flight, you have to enter the menu twice to reset the axes).

Tested again after today's Hotfix 2 and it's still OK, even after I open the radio menu with RAlt+\.

I don't understand why some people need to use Invert Axis with their FFB2, as I only need Swap Axis for it to work correctly.

For me, the update did not change the behaviour.

The invert x-axis FF setting defaults to unchecked with each crew position change (when available) or at the press of the radio menu button. This can be recreated accross all modules if set up this way (to clarify: IF you set the FF tuning up this way for testing. the default settings are actually fine for flying fixed wing modules. It is used to prove the problem is there DCS wide though only affects rotary flight with an MSFFB2 currently).

The only extra information we can provide at this time that i can think of is if someone with a g940 or other FFB device sets up his ff tuning with inverted x-axis checked and report on the effect of changing crew position and pressing radio menu keypresses on the setting.

For me, the update did not change the behaviour.

 

The invert x-axis FF setting defaults to unchecked with each crew position change (when available) or at the press of the radio menu button.

I didn't test the hotfix with the invert x-axis setting as it's not needed with my FFB2, so I'm confused as to why you need it?

I'll test later though to check whether it unticks when I press my radio menu combo or swap seat position.

I know of two different versions of the FFB2, could be something changed in the electronics or soldering between the two production runs that makes this happen. i need swap axis and invert x to make it work correctly on mine actually.

I know of two different versions of the FFB2, could be something changed in the electronics or soldering between the two production runs that makes this happen. i need swap axis and invert x to make it work correctly on mine actually.

I'm using the one with the silver/grey buttons on the base and the red trigger. I've got one of the other models as well but it's packed away at the moment, so I can't check with that.

I have the black buttons with silver/grey hat, throttle and trigger type. So, i guess that the insides differ too then.

Sorry for the double post but i checked out the different joystick .lua's and though i haven't been able to determine the cause, i do have a temporary...

SOLUTION:

open the "Sidewinder force feedback 2.lua" for the module you want to deconflict. You can use notepad but i recommend something more capable like notepad++.

For the Huey it is located in ...\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Mods\aircraft\Uh-1H\Input\UH-1H\joystick.

right at the top you will find the force feedback settings. Change the invert X setting from "true" to "false", save and you're done.

Warning: if you go into the ff tuning in dcs and tick the invert x axis ff the problem comes back. A restart of DCS will solve this. I suspect the settings in the game are not written to the .lua in all cases but i am not sure. If i find out anything more i will let you know.