Joystick "Black Mamba" from VKB FSC Europe

VKB KG-12 "PnP" for VKB Mamba/KingCobra and Tm Warthog/Cougar prototype - in plastic, production model in Alloy aluminium, with corrugated surface.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_04_2015/post-979-0-48093900-1427864816.jpg

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_04_2015/post-979-0-94990600-1427864836.jpg

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_04_2015/post-979-0-79419000-1427864861.jpg

The grip dont pretend be a 100% replica, the design was adapted for more convenient use in flight simulators.

 

The original spring system - not safety for user thumb nail - was changed for dual spring that allow stop the trigger in three positions, as show in pictures.

Trigger button in steel, with Japanese linear 40 ball bearing, switch (OMROM) rated to 1M cycles.

The top and top left side buttons work as HAT with central press button.

The left button house has inclination adjustable.

The little finger button will receive a lever (trigger) allowing use without move the hand like in original.

The holes on sides allow optional install of:

Left - brake lever with MaRS sensor (Yak-3)

Right - adjustable palm rest (Mig-21).

 

12 available functions (buttons) preserving the original (4 button) look.

 

Versions "PnP" for VKB Mamba and King Cobra base and for Tm Warthog and Cougar. The connector allow adjust the grip angle (left/right).

 

Price estimated - 200-250$.

My guess is this MKIII wil use cam in gimbal. :)

Not quite. I remember them mention they plan on producing a cam version as an option for those who dislike the current hard center mechanism.

That KG-12 grip looks great and the design is really clever.

I hope the next step will be a modern fighter stick version!

Here's the new gimbal! (cams)

(there should be two versions of cams design: firm and soft center)

(an upgrade kit should become available for the Mamba MkI and MkII owners)

Apparently, there are a very few Fat Black Mamba MkIII (including the new gimbal) available (pre-order).

More info with the official press release (.pdf) (Stratojet news).

That's a pretty slick looking gimbal, the firm and soft centre is done by changing those plates on the side that look like they roll over a small bearing?

Here's the new gimbal! (cams)

 

:P

That's a pretty slick looking gimbal, the firm and soft centre is done by changing those plates on the side that look like they roll over a small bearing?

There's no official announcement yet, but I assume there will be two cams sets, or maybe we'll have to choose between two options.

@VO101_MMaister: that's some serious gimbal! :thumbsup: The viscous dampers themselves are a radical choice (for a very different price range apparently ;)).

Was it a personal project?

From another thread:

[…]

PS: VKB is starting pre-ordering for the Mk.III Black Mamba... what do you think - should I get it? How's the stick quality? Looks a lot like Saitek to me, but I do love the Russian-style design. Oh, and how close is the Mamba's stick to the actual Su-27's layout in terms of buttons/features? Thanks.

Here are my first impressions about a year ago.

The stick build quality still feels better than my X-55 throttle (some buttons start to feel "weaker"/less responsive) (I never used CH products so I can't compare the build quality), but I know at least one user had some problems with the 3-position switch (false contact or similar).

That switch doesn't feel very resistant and it's a bit tiny.

Every buttons/switch on my stick are still in perfect shape, but I'm not flying several hours a day.

The two triggers use snap-action microswitches and you have that distinctive "click" feeling (like a mechanical key). As they do not require a lot of force to be operated, they don't wear easily. That's a good thing.

I'm still not comfortable with the button on the left, pressed with the thumb. The movement it requires definitely feels unnatural.

I know the stick design is pretty old (2008 ) and based on the Su-34 version.

Imho, the "pinky lever/button" also feels a bit fragile and its activation is not great (not firm enough). The good thing is that you can retract the lever out of the way when you don't need it (I use it as a modifier in DCS).

Overall, I like the stick ergonomics and I really don't mind the plastic build. I would have loved an analogic stick for the slew control and a solid brake lever.

It's definitely a good match with the Su-27 as you can bind most of the real controls to the same buttons.

Here's my reference picture:

First hat for the TRIM, second hat for the slew control. You can use the pinky lever as the brake lever.

The central picture shows the base encoder, used as a rudder trimmer/reset trim button in the sim.

Here's the Su-27 stick:

The Black Mamba stick feels supercomfortable with the Su-27 ;)

Now, about the opportunity to grab the Fat Black Mamba: in my opinion, it can be a great choice. The new gimbal can only be better than the previous version and it's a surgical instrument.

But I see you own a nice CH throttle and all those buttons on the base were designed to upgrade a single stick used without any throttle (the Fat King Cobra). With a common HOTAS use, you probably won't touch those controls a lot.

That's why I bought a Black Mamba instead of a Fat Black Mamba. The BM is meant to be used in combination with a throttle, and with an extender (if you wish) (and fixed between your feet).

But more options does not hurt ;) And I know VKB chose very good quality buttons and switches for the base.

If I'm not mistaken, the Gunfighter base will be sold only with the KG12 stick (you should contact VKB about that). Maybe there are just a few BM sticks left.

Another good thing: VKB is still working on a modern (metal) stick version (PAK FA/Su-35-like), and it will be compatible with your Fat Black Mamba. But I won't expect it before 2017…

So: the Mamba is close to the Su-27 real stick (and other russian sticks), the gimbal is top-notch for the price range, the stick buttons are not meant for industrial use but they still do the job without failing (at least for me) - better than Saitek build quality. And it will be a good match with your T-Rudder MkIII. ;)

I hope this helps.

I'm still not comfortable with the button on the left, pressed with the thumb.

MOD it. ;)

upload pics

Ahah :) Yes. Thanks Sokol. I've considered this idea for a while now.

I also stumbled upon that neat mod pic but I didn't find the original post. Do you know if there's a description somewhere?

The next level would be to include a brake (lever) axis and a 2-axis slew control! And the NJoy32 controller is already up for that task… How frustrating.

Another great thing about the new gimbal is that we'll be able to mix the axis feelings.

(as it will be provided with two cams sets)

For example: a firm center for the roll axis, and a soft center for the pitch axis. :)

That should isolate the centered (no-roll) pitch input and soften the pitch transitions (crossing the center) with sustained bank.

That possibility alone is a great incentive to buy an upgrade kit…

I think this picture is from Sukhoi forum, now "dead"...

Thanks for the detailed information, Bourrinopathe! That was a very enlightening read and useful in the decision-making process. :)

Question: on the right side of the Mamba stick, there seems to be another red button that's flush with the shape of the stick and seems to be used with the right index finger. Can you describe that as well?

Think this is a bolt cover (?), not a button.

Cobra M5 (BM borrow this grip) layout, the stick has 3 physical buttons, 4 way HAT + 14 virtual buttons in the previous with Mode 2, Mode 3, plus 2 triggers and POV HAT.

Mode switch dont change triggers.

Thanks Sokol1 :)

@VO101_MMaister: that's some serious gimbal! :thumbsup: The viscous dampers themselves are a radical choice (for a very different price range apparently ;)).

Was it a personal project?

Yep it was a control stick & pedals I built for myself a few years ago.

The dampers can be expensive ( I bought them for peanuts on e-bay) but the control feeling is day and night compared to the spring only systems.

Here are some pictures:

https://flic.kr/s/aHsjR2V5gH

Here is a small clip with the damper effect:

Amazing stuff, VO101_MMaister!

MOD it. ;)

 

upload pics

Awesome idea Sokol!

Do you have a guide/pictures on how to do that mod?

Ninrod,

No, the forum where I find this no longer exist...

But based in the picture, the 'brake" lever is probable cut in aluminum sheet.

The two press buttons are replaced with ones a little big (take a look a Knitter-Switches).

And the body modifications looks cut from (plastic? ) tubes.

Find this other picture, now with modified hand rest and needing a new paint. :)

Ninrod,

 

No, the forum where I find this no longer exist...

 

But based in the picture, the 'brake" lever is probable cut in aluminum sheet.

 

The two press buttons are replaced with ones a little big (take a look a Knitter-Switches).

 

 

And the body modifications looks cut from (plastic? ) tubes.

 

Find this other picture, now with modified hand rest and needing a new paint. :)

 

Thanks Sokol.

Is the side button you added wired into the controller inside the Defender or did you have to modify it some how with an external controller? A three position rocker there would be awesome.

In this "mod" the side button is the formerly left "shoulder" button in the new position, no electronics changes need.

Theoretically you can add buttons/axis to the Mamba Njoy32 controller (up to ~100 I think), but the add-on expansion boards need for this is no longer produced. VKB deactivate the DIY parts section, due low interest...

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_11_2015/post-979-0-07696200-1447302422.jpg

This info interest for owners of Mamba Mk.I and II (from Russian forum).

Mamba Mk.I and II gimbal upgrade kit will have limited production:

"Release upgrades mechanical joysticks Mamba - single.

We are doing this in support of our products.

Until December 10 to collect orders.

And produced by a separate party.

Of course, we will make a slightly larger amount than you need.

But when upgrades are over, I'm not sure what we can do again.

For 5-10 sets a new production run is impossible.

Please understand."

Thanks for reporting that important info Sokol ;)

I think I'll order mine soon.

Mamba gimbal upgrade kit and Warthog adapter pre-order in Stratojet (USA and Canada only).

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/19370-vkb-black-mamba-mods-available-pre-order-stratojet/

The extension length is 20 cm.

BTW - If you have a Cougar laying around, dont miss the boat. ;)