Need assistance for understand the "Gun Ammunition Count"...

Hello,

I need you assistance for understand few things about the ammo indicator of the Dora.

After one mission my four guns was empty, of course I returned to my home base for rearm but the grey bar don't move, they stay black.

So I've turned the "Set Gun Ammunition Count" and I could see these four bar gone white but when I return to fight these same white bars stay white and not black.

Please can you tell me if I must use these "Set Gun Ammunition Count" ?

Other little question, why one light stay green above my left white bar #1.

I join you one screenshot of these remarks.

PS: I hope that my explanations are clear because it's easy to explain.

A great thanks in advance, Skull.

The red blinking counters are normally not present in the FW-190A or the BF-109 models.

The counters exist in serveral versions dependent on their max count.

Here is a reallife manual on the German ammo counters:

http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/s/SZKK/LuftT6505Schusszeahler.pdf

FinnJ

Any documentation about what counters the modelled Dora uses? The manual is a bit confusing since the SZKK 4 actually doesn't have any counters. It is the housing where the SZ1000, 500 and 100 counters are placed...

Original manual for the SZKK:

http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/s/SZKK/SZKK_4.pdf

In English would be nice. I'd like to know as well.

The DCS FW-190 D9 manual only mentions the SZKK 4, but thats only the box in wicht the SZ100, SZ500 or SZ1000 can be mounted in and also contain the master Arm/Safe switch as well as a switch to deselect a weapon group (I assume the cannons can be disabled, but it´s not modelled in the DCS version)

The FW-190 D9 as depicted in DCS, uses the following weapons:

- 2 syncronised 13mm Rheinmetal-Borsig MG131 machineguns with 475 rounds per gun.

- 2 syncronised 20mm Mauser MG151/20 cannons with 250 rounds per cannon.

The 2 outmost placed ammo counters seems to be the SZ500, indicating almost 300 rounds, whereas there are only 250 rounds for each cannon.

So it indicates 50 rounds too many

The innermost placed ammo counters seems also to be the SZ500, indicating 500 rounds, wheras there are only 475 rounds for each gun.

So it indicates 25 rounds too many

This means that the span of the counters are set wrong, since they will correctly indicate when the guns or cannons are empty.

The red and green lines here indicates where they should start from, when both guns and cannons are filled up:

Simply adjusting the displays via the small knobs won´t help, cause then they will indicate empty when there still 25 rounds left.

I also wonder why the green lights (These are not lights, but mechanical devices triggert by electrical impulses from the gun/cannon breachlock,and should have been white) only flicker on the first ammo counter and not on the other 3, since the very same electrical impuls that makes then flicker also drives the ammo counter downwards.

FinnJ

The selector switch (Wahlschalter) should also work to select weapons and there should be a sign next to it telling how it is "programmed". I also think that there should be text on the 'Schilder' underneath the counters so that that the pilot knows what is used and loaded. The 'Sicherungschalter' (safety switch) is also missing on/off markings.

It would be great to know what type of Schüßzählern that is fitted into the SZKK.

@FinnJ: aren't the firing indicators white but seem green when the panel light is on?

Just went through some pictures of the SZ devices and they should have a stamped number on the front that you can tell the type from.

The selector switch (Wahlschalter) should also work to select weapons and there should be a sign next to it telling how it is "programmed". I also think that there should be text on the 'Schilder' underneath the counters so that that the pilot knows what is used and loaded. The 'Sicherungschalter' (safety switch) is also missing on/off markings.

 

It would be great to know what type of Schüßzählern that is fitted into the SZKK.

Those should be SZ500.

And additionally to your explanation/findings:

from the "D.(Luft) T.6504" (http://www.DeutscheLuftwaffe.de)

"Ein Wahlschalter ermöglicht das Zu- bzw. Abschalten eines Teiles der fernbedienten Schußwaffen."

A selector switch allows to enabling or disabling of some of the remotely controlled guns.

and

"Die Stellungen des Wahlschalters sind neben diesem angebrachten Schild einzutragen:

Der Wahlschalter kann gegebenenfalls auch blockiert werden."

The positions of the selector switch are to be indicated on the label next to it:

The selector switch can be blocked if required.

The "Green lights" should have been white mechanical devices, and I don´t think they would look green even with panel light.

They are most probably painted with the same white as the "bar graph" on the ammo counter.

Instead they could have been fluorocent green, but that would still look alot more pale as they are now, and certainly not in full daylight.

The Counters used are obviously SZ500 as You can see on the scales i.e the SZ100 has 11 large marks (0-100) and then a smaller submark between.

The SZ500 has 6 large marks (0-500) and no smaller submarks.

The SZ1000 has 11 large marks, but no smaller submarks. Instead it has an even thicker mark at 50% (500).

Lol Flagrum was faster :thumbup:

FinnJ

Hi,

I guess the illustration in DCS is not correct

There is a orginal picture of the SZKK4 as shown in http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/s

/SZKK/SZKK_4.pdf

http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/instrumente/katalog/Schaltkasten/gross/Fl.47319.gif

See the "imprinting" on the Schußzähler

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Switches :

Upper Saftey switch I - for example the FW A8, D9

Is for

2x weapons fuselage

and

2x wing-root weapons

The Lower Saftey Swich II - for example the FW A8

Is for

x2 wings outboard weapons

The Lower Saftey Swich II is not used in the D9

###

Flagrum was faster

At least we need seperate triggers for guns and cannons.

FinnJ

Btw, neither those weired(?) red lamps nor the "Drehschauzeichen" is flickering when I fire the guns. I am not sure if I ever saw them doing it ... besides in Glowing's teaser video.

@FinnJ: aren't the firing indicators white but seem green when the panel light is on?

Yes, if you turn down the instrument lighting, the indicator is white.

But I am unsure if they should be really have backlighting - it is a mechanical indicator and if you put a lamp behind it, you could just go with a lamp alone ...

And also ... IF they were backlit, then why aren't the counter bars not backlit, too?

I rather think they would have been fluorocent, thus looking greenish, but not green like they are now.

Just like on watches from that time.

FinnJ

Super, I would like to thanks for your explanations, link and photos.

But one thing that I cannot understand with this left white light, why just this left light and not the three other lights are off ?

Bug or work fine ?

Thanks again guys.

Super, I would like to thanks for your explanations, link and photos.

 

But one thing that I cannot understand with this left green light, why just this left green light and not the three other lights are off ?

Bug or work fine ?

 

Thanks again guys.

 

(pic)

 

I think, the whole SZKK needs a bit of work and your issue is a bug in my eyes.

- only partly functional firing indicators

- errornously backlit firing indicator(s)

- superflous red lamps as firing indicators

- firing indicators not animated

- labels missing/wrong

- counting gauges misaligned or inprecisely calculated

- (debatable?) non functional selector switch

I think, the whole SZKK needs a bit of work and your issue is a bug in my eyes.

- only partly functional firing indicators

- errornously backlit firing indicator(s)

- superflous red lamps as firing indicators

- firing indicators not animated

- labels missing/wrong

- counting gauges misaligned or inprecisely calculated

- (debatable?) non functional selector switch

+1

FinnJ

Didn't the lights turn on when the guns where jammed? Or I remember incorrectly from Il-2? :)

Didn't the lights turn on when the guns where jammed? Or I remember incorrectly from Il-2? :)

The indicators should flicker when the guns fire (they are no lights/lamps ... or should be not) and if they don't then it is an indication for a jam, yes.

But nothing flickers ... but the guns still work fine. :doh:

The German ammo counters in IL-2 BOS actually works like they should, for those who want check.

FinnJ

I went once more through the "Werksschrift 2190 D-9 Teil 8-A", the weapon systems maintenance manual for the Fw190 D-9.

We wondered, if these 3 red lamps in front of the SZKK are authentic. Seems they are - they are described in the manual (attachment 1). Later on page 9 (describing the MG 131 system): "Die beiden Verschlußkontrollampen befinden sich über dem SZKK4. Die linke Lampe gehört sinngemöß zum linken und die mittlere zum rechten MG"

Both 'upper receiver'-indicator lamps are located above the SZKK4. The left one is assigned to the left and the middle one to the right machine gun.

Page 21 (about the MG 151/20E): "Die rechte Verschlußkontrollampe über dem SZKK4 zeigt für die rechte Flügelwurzelwaffe die erfolgte Durchladung an."

The right 'upper receiver'-indicator lamp above the SZKK4 indicates the successful charging of the right wing root weapon.

BUT ... still unclear to me if the rotary indicators of the ammo counter should or should not flicker. While the red lamps are "on" if the gun is fully charged (i.e. round is in the chamber and ready to fire) they should be off while the casing is ejected and a new round is loaded. So, red flickering lamps seem to be authentic, right? But what about the ammo counter ... maybe they did not wire them because it would be somewhat redundant? On the other hand, the SZ500 is an enclosed device - if it counts the rounds, then the indicator should also flicker ... hrm ...

We also wondered, if it is possible to fire the two weapon types separately - either by switching the lower switch of the SZKK or by appropriate wiring of the stick buttons. Seems this would be not authentic.

Attachment, bottom: Powering on of the fuselage and wing root weapons is done with the safety switch 1. (...) The button A at the KG13B stick is used to trigger both weapon groups.

I.e. both weapon groups are powerd up by the upper switch and both weapon groups are fired with button A. No mentioning of the safety switch II or other buttons.

I would expect that also the rotary indicators on the SZ500 should flicker.

I doubt that there is 2 seperate inputs on the SZ500, so if the rotarie´s don´t flicker, then the ammocounter won´t count.

This is just my personal interpretation.

FinnJ

Good find flagrum. Looks like it is mostly correct except maybe the flickering of the SZ500s is missing. Wonder if they asked the old Dora pilot how it was configured.