Harrier FM peculiarities, probe effect etc.

Reading the Natops manual, I found some interesting things about the Harrier's limitations and peculiar traits that make this a very interesting aircraft to fly.

For example the manual speaks about learning to fly 3 different airplanes in one, with different behaviors according to the speed / altitude regime that you're flying at.

High AoA departures seem to be something to really look out for at high altitude, hard maneuvering above M .78 is a big no-no, also departures due to loaded rolls or excessive sideslip are strongly emphasized in the manual.

Another interesting thing is the "Refueling probe effect".

I understand the FM is under heavy development, and currently it doesn't exhibit any of the above characteristics, but are these things going to be modeled in the final version?

Very good question ...

[...] hard maneuvering above M .78 is a big no-no, [...]

That's one the things I first noticed. Take a look at this strafing run I recorded:

5.9 Gs at M 0.83.

Cheers,

I am waiting to see such limitations implemented. As currently the Harrier in current early access doesn't feel "limiting" at all. The main challenge for me is if you drop a bomb causing unbalance and your wing just notch making you easily to roll over or enter to unrecoverable dive if too low (like about 1200ft)

It is amazing what capabilities the Harrier has, but I really wait to see what kind limits or downsides they get in. Lots of work to do, but I believe they get it in 80% ballpark..

It is amazing what capabilities the Harrier has, but I really wait to see what kind limits or downsides they get in. Lots of work to do, but I believe they get it in 80% ballpark..

It's such a unique airframe, it has many trade-offs to be able to be a VTOL fighter. I surely hope they nail the nuances of the flight model or it would be a big detriment form the authenticity of the module.

Bump, would be nice to hear a word from the devs on this one.

The Harriers maneuvering limits are quite clearly defined in the performance manuals, so I'm sure the devs are aware if there are any problems:

Yes, this very unique bird will take a little while to polish up the FM to get it as close as they can to the IRL specs, just like the work put into the M2000's FM.

These guy's have done a great job considering the level we always expect from DCS level flight models. It's still an amazing aircraft to fly, easily now the best VTOL sim I've flown in any sim by far, So much fun.

She'll get there, it may take some time at this level of FM and for this unique never done before flight model.

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I'm pretty sure the devs use these charts. Interesting to see the hard limit of M 1.05. That's exactly where the left wing (usually) pops off

But similarly to the engine modeling, I guess it would be more realistic if there wasn't an instant damage occuring as soon as the limits are exceeded by just a nano-whatever. Just to throw in a different example, but basically it's regarding the same issue, being physical limitations. German Type VIIC U-Boats had a shipyard warranted diving depth of 100m (Werftgarantie or Konstruktionstauchtiefe), they've been tested up to 165m and crush depth has been calculated to be 250, but there are accounts of the type having exceeded 280m, surviving. The most famous one is probably U-96 (L.G. Buchheim, Das Boot). This is just a real example that shows exceeding the limits doesn't mean damage will occur, it just might be.

After all I have to concur that RAZBAM is doing a great job, especially seeing the course of the M-2000C. It almost felt like a totally incomplete thing when it came out, but quickly became an ironed-out product (the only issue I still see is the AG CCIP for rockets and guns being hard locked in elevation and therefor being unprecise). The Harrier started out in a better shape and it's having a very positive development as well. The devs care, they talk and they update their modules constantly even if they're a bit behind regarding changelogs, there's never been a mention of the AFC for example, but suddenly it was working to some extent.