** Strategies on how to look for targets with the TGP??**

Hi all!

I really would appreciate any input on your ideas for strategies for the usage ot the TGP... for example, I would make an instant mission with a lot of ground units in them, and I just simply dont find anything on the TGP...

Of course, when you know where to look it is easy (for example, when a JTAC message is entered in the system and you get a cue in the TAD, you can make it the SPI, slave all to SPI and LO your TGP will magically be looking at a target...

But, in the case you dont... For example, the first mission in THE SHORE campaign... When you get to the green smoke of the downed aviator, it is easy to look at him in the TGP, fine...

But how do you go after that to look for threats, to find a good ingress or egress route for the (F10) CSAR Helos, etc...

Once something is detected, and made MARK point, or SPI, etc... it is quite easy to work on it, but, how do you look for those targets at first???

thanks a lot, any input will be helpful

(I REALLY THINK THAT THE MANUAL IS GREAT BUT IT FOCUSES MORE ON HOW THINGS WORK THAN HOW ONE SHOULD USE THEM...)

JEFX

It's tough. One of the best ways is to listen to the other calls by pilots. They will give you a distance / direction from bulls. Then I jot some down as they go, and do bull - curs on the tad to find the spot, put a mark point at each and then slave that way.

Scanning back and forth over the target area while toggling between BHOT/WHOT and zooming in/out tends to help, but of course it's one of those things where you have to trade the cost/benefit of spending time looking. Even then it's pretty easy to miss things, but I think that's how it ought to be.

I also find increasing the IR gain to 5 to be quite helpful. Anything higher than that I find degrades the image too much, but 5 seems to often be better for spotting things than the default gain of 4.

Also keep in mind that it's a beta and there might be further changes made to the rendering in the TGP which might make things easier. (Or harder. :D)

I should have asked this question long ago. I've had a lot of trouble with the same thing. I created a mission for myself where a single tank is moving across the plains near Batumi. I found that I had as much fun trying to spot civilian vehicles. I don't claim these are the only, or even the best, methods. I'm glad you started this thread as I'm ready to expand my ability in this area as well. Here's what I came up with so far: (lengthy, as I wish I'd read this before trial and error)

1. MK1 Eyeball

2. TGP AG

3. TGP AA

4. Maverick Slave

General Notes - Be sure to utilize one of the best aspects of your Hawg.. the ability to fly slow. I like to get 8-10k, decrease my thrust to 70-75% to maintain between 180 and 200ks, and use my autopilot so I can focus on my MFDs or out the canopy. Remember to keep your eye on the TAD and maintain situational awareness.. always know where you are. Depending on the terrain and my separation, I'll use either a box pattern with Alt/Hdg autopilot or an slow circular orbit with alt autopilot.

1. MK1 Eyeball - You'd be suprised how much you can spot with your eyes. I like to zoom in and change my TrackIR to Precision Mode ( I use alt+F7, default is just F7 ). Look for dust plumes for moving targets. For non-moving targets look for an area where secondary fires are already burning from the battle. If you have stationary targets that are masked by terrain and haven't been engaged, they can be very difficult to find. In this case I just send in my wingman.. he has impeccable vision! :) If you do spot a target with your eye there are a number of ways that you can go about getting your TGP on it. Since I'm already viewing it with my eye, I'll usually just bring the aircraft about and use the Target Designation Cue. This is the box that's slaved to your TVV until you make HUD SPI and slew.. you can slew the TDC down to our target, then TMS ForLong to make it SPI. The other method I've used is to compare the terrain to the TAD, get a rough idea of distance with your eye (at 10k ft, objects even with your wingtip are about 10-12nm away.. use your wing as a ruler), slew the TGP diamond over to the approx area while watching the TAD. You can also hook your TAD cursor so you can get a hdg/dis to the spot. You can then create a markpoint and slave all to SPI. PLEASE someone tell me if there's a better way to do this:

*Make TAD SOI

*Change to Hook Cursor

*Change FOV to EXP1 or 2 (china forShort)

*Slew cursor around and you can see hdg/dis on lower right

*Create a markpoint then set it as SPI, slave all to SPI to view on TGP

2. TGP AG - Besides the obvious 'slew around till you hit paydirt' aspects, there are a few things I like to do:

*Hit CTRL+kpd0 then kpd6 to view only the right MFD

*Use coolie down to swap MFDs often and check your position on the TAD

*Change from BHOT to WHOT to CCD often to reveal targets by contrast

*Turn your gain all the way up (OSB 19/20?) then back 1 or 2 until the terrain isn't washed out. This will make objects jump out nicely.

*Refocus often (DMS Left Short)

*Change FOV wide/narrow often

3. TGP AA - I've had some success in finding objects using TGP AA mode. You'll notice that, unlike AG mode, AA RATES will automatically point out any obvious silhouette with an additional moving cross. The problem with that is it points to buildings, electric poles, etc, as well as aircraft and ground vehicles. To use this effectively you have to have a good standoff distance of 10+nm. Make sure the search area is within a 45deg cone from your nose. You can make an object SPI from this mode, and mark it, just like TGP.AG mode.

4. Maverick Slave - I've had little success using this method, atleast with MAV-Ds. Although the mav computer will lock on silhouettes, it's hard (since mav is WIP) to get a good visual description of what your mav is tracking unless you're very close (<5nm or <)

Hope these methods cut your training time. I'm looking forward to reading about other methods.

EDIT: nomdeplume made it clear to me how to create markpoints directly from the TAD cursor . <facepalm>Thanks again.

You can create a markpoint on the TAD and then hook that. I think that's probably the only method for making an arbitrary point on the map your SPI.

You can create a markpoint by hooking a known object then making it SPI and hitting mark. Doing it the opposite way would have no use I believe. The question is, can you create a markpoint from the TAD cursor without hooking a known object.

EDIT: the reason I bring this up is that it's sometimes a pain to slew the TGP diamond to a terrain area seen on the TAD. The only ways I know to make markpoints are to slew the TGP diamond and make it SPI, or use the TDC and make it SPI... or fly directly over the point.. which is asking for trouble sometimes :).

That's what I meant, I'm pretty sure that if the TAD is the SOI, pressing TMS Right Short to create a markpoint will create one at the cursor location on the TAD, regardless of if there's any objects there.

Once you've created the markpoint, you can hook it and make it the SPI, and thereby slew any other sensors in that direction.

Of course you've sewn seeds of doubt now, but I can't test it at work...

I guess it is also supposed to be hard.

Just read a passage of flying the A-10 in the gulf war. They didnt have TGP yet and used mav cam at night. The pilots compare it too finding threats while closing one eye and then looking trough a straw with your single open eye.

For scanning areas, I guess it is best to use the classic spotting method also used by ground troops. Just divide the area in imaginary bands and keep scanning them from near to far. Altitude obviously gives better field of view. Haven't given it much thought as to what would be the ideal search pattern but I do know that having a pattern is better then just some random slewing. It ensures equal attention to every part of the area and thus you make sure nothing is overlooked.

That's a good point Geskes! Going about random searches is futile. I like to use land marks as a reference; the shape of a field, the shape of a forest, the distance between two populated areas. Take a mental picture of three points and plot your scan from them.

Attached is the document "Joint Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures for Combat Search and Rescue" written by the USAF under direction of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in 1998. It includes flight patterns and scan techniques specifically for the A-10. It's obviously outdated and unclassified, and I'm sure they have updated procedures based on updated technology, but it's interesting and informative none the less. Check it out.

SARs.pdf

You're very correct nomdeplume! I was trying to set SPI to TAD cursor before making a markpoint. Since I couldn't set SPI to the cursor point, I didn't move forward to try to create a markpoint! :lol: Thanks, my life just got a whole lot easier.

I was going to create a video with these concepts but found that there's already a

That's what I meant, I'm pretty sure that if the TAD is the SOI, pressing TMS Right Short to create a markpoint will create one at the cursor location on the TAD, regardless of if there's any objects there.

Glad I'm not insane! That seems to confirm my belief that setting a markpoint is based on the SOI, not the SPI.

One other thing I've found is that you need to have weapons armed (or possibly set to TRAIN), at least when setting mark points using the TGP. I spent a while surveying a target area and putting markpoints on Tunguskas so I could run in with Mavericks, then when I switched to markpoint mode there weren't any. Took a while to figure that one out!

Glad I'm not insane! That seems to confirm my belief that setting a markpoint is based on the SOI, not the SPI.

 

One other thing I've found is that you need to have weapons armed (or possibly set to TRAIN), at least when setting mark points using the TGP. I spent a while surveying a target area and putting markpoints on Tunguskas so I could run in with Mavericks, then when I switched to markpoint mode there weren't any. Took a while to figure that one out!

A good way of telling if you're actually creating markpoints is have the cdu showing on the other mfd. It will show the new markpoints details when you create one.

Edit: or ofcourse set the steerpoint knob to markpoint and they will show up in the TAD.

Once you create SPI with TGP, how do you make Mavericks automatically lock it, without having to manually slew the max target box over it?

What option / key should I press?

Thanks.

Once you create SPI with TGP, how do you make Mavericks automatically lock it, without having to manually slew the max target box over it?

China Hat Fwd Long - slews all sensors to the current SPI. Then just use TMS Up Short with the Mav as the SOI to lock whatever's under the crosshairs.

^^Thanks a bunch!

Wow, this is a great bunch of answers and a very informative thread. Thanks to all, I am looking forward to have the time to experiment with all these.

JEFX

Glad I'm not insane! That seems to confirm my belief that setting a markpoint is based on the SOI, not the SPI.

Droping markspoints with the TAD is great for targeting, but where its really helped me is when I need to find a place to make an emergancy landing.

With the TAD set in exp mode 1 or 2 (china hat fwrd Short with TAD as SOI), one gets a really excellent sense of the theater. Also, with the TAD in this mode, you (I :)) get a much better sense of your bearings relative to your target, or whatever you might be marking on your map.The top of your display is always North, the bottem Soulth etc.

On a side note, does anyone know of a tutorial that describes (in depth) the symbology on the maps loaded into the TAD (not the TAD symbols, the ones drawn onto the moving map). Some of it is pretty straight forward but it would be nice to see it described in detail

To find the closest field to land at, go to your CDU (or bring it up on the MFD), goto Nav, then select Divert. You'll see a list of available airfields ordered by distance. Once you select a airfield it will display as your steerpoint on the HUD.

To find the closest field to land at, go to your CDU (or bring it up on the MFD), goto Nav, then select Divert. You'll see a list of available airfields ordered by distance. Once you select a airfield it will display as your steerpoint on the HUD.

nice :thumbup:

Sounds a little more reliable then my method...

To find the closest field to land at, go to your CDU (or bring it up on the MFD), goto Nav, then select Divert. You'll see a list of available airfields ordered by distance. Once you select a airfield it will display as your steerpoint on the HUD.

Yep. Also-either "2 + func" or "func+2" on the UFC (can't remember right this second) will bring up the menu with Divert OSB. .. same as what Strongharm said on the CDU itself- just a little easier to operate.

Should be func then whatever key press after since func is like a shift key for the UFC.

(MFD) Muilty Function Display Right?

I just call it the Mother F ing Display!

i would really like to have this hog lantirn pod (it's from the book "warthog" by william l. smallwood)