X-52 pro mouse joy

[Jumbik]

I've got my hands on the Saitek x-52 pro and i'm curently experimenting with it in DCS. I like it so far but one thing is puzzling me. Is there any way how to adjust the sensitivity of the mouse stick? Or even change the orientation of the axis?

 

It's just too sensitive for me to be able to point at anything in cockpit fast enough. I would also love to rotate the axis in a way that pressing it away of me would meant that the mouse would move up instead of right.

 

I have found in the setup that i can adjust the deadzone and maximum spread but thats all. It's the only thing that is making me confused every time i touch it. The stick is great but i would love to be able to change the mouse behaviour if it's possible.

 

Thank you for any tips you might have.

[PFunk1606688187]

Secret to using the mouse nub is to not use it for the mouse. I've only met one person who told me it worked well for him as a mouse, and I think he was a freak.

 

Either set it to bands and set up some key emulation or set it to be a directional axis and map stuff to that.

 

Its utterly hopeless as a mouse, but I love it as a de facto fourth hat switch.

[cichlidfan]

Secret to using the mouse nub is to not use it for the mouse.

...

Its utterly hopeless as a mouse, but I love it as a de facto fourth hat switch.

 

Agreed. Sound advice.

[Jumbik]

So you guys use actual mouse when you want to click on something inside the cockpit? That's really inpractical for me when im in some kind of manuevering. :(

[nwbasson]

I tried the mouse stick on my X52, I've found it more efficient to use my actual mouse for clicking cockpit buttons (I have it right next to my joystick) and use the mouse stick on the throttle for slew control.

Edited May 14, 2014 by nwbasson

[Blooze]

I use the X52 Pro and considering it has 3 modes plus a forth using the pinky switch, I have nearly all of the things that I used to use a mouse for programmed to the stick. Of course this requires creating a Saitek profile to use instead of just the DCS World options. As far as the mouse stick is concerned, just like any mouse you can slow the speed down using the Windows control panel. I have found that using a trackball is much better than a mouse for all applications, but especially the cockpit.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Blooze

[cichlidfan]

So you guys use actual mouse when you want to click on something inside the cockpit? That's really inpractical for me when im in some kind of manuevering. :(

 

If you are trying to click things in the cockpit while you are 'maneuvering' then you are doing something wrong.

[Jumbik]

If you are trying to click things in the cockpit while you are 'maneuvering' then you are doing something wrong.

 

 

How else you want to click something in KA-50 when you do not want or cant use auto hover or route mode?

 

For example I'm in middle of turn and I want to click something on ABRIS... or I encounter enemy and need to enable weapons, laser and so on.

 

Just playing with way-points keypad can kill me if I will put my hand of the joystick.

 

Of course I can plan ahead but for that I need to know the mission and what will happen when.

[Blooze]

Most of the cockpit buttons have keystrokes assigned to them that can also be assigned to the X52 using the Saitek Software. If a cockpit button has no keystroke assigned by default you can manually assign one and then assign a button on your X52 to operate it. It takes time to create a profile but it's worth it in the end.

[nwbasson]

You should have the essential functions on the hotas imo. Things that you need setup by clicking in the cockpit should be taken care of before you engage hostiles or enter into enemy territory.

[Jumbik]

Ok, so I will have to create a profile that will suit me. No way around that :)

[PFunk1606688187]

Well what you're describing is something which Ka-50 designers theoretically created the autopilot to handle. The idea behind the single pilot cockpit of that attack helo was that with enough automation the he can have the flying workload reduced so he can focus on the systems when he had to.

 

Maybe the systems design is a failure. :P

 

Also, just to note, the stick in the Ka-50 is for the right hand, the ABRIS and PVI-800 (or whatever its called) is on the right side. No real pilot in the midst of any maneuver is going to be able to use those systems. You think he's gonna reach across the stick with his left hand?

 

Even in the A-10C when you have combat area items not on the HOTAS its mostly easily accessible for the left hand, like almost all the FENCE items. Even deadening the lights is on the HOTAS because the lighting panel is aft on his right side. Everything to do with engines and emergencies is on the left side, for very obvious reasons.

 

So you have two solutions. Learn to fly with your left hand or put a mouse on your left side. Most however learn to live with it, its not as inconvenient as it sounds, though I have a friend who flies the Ka-50 very aggressively and he insists on being able to designate targets and stuff in the turn which you probably wouldn't even do in the real one, so there's that.

 

You just need to find your own control set up. You can get almost everything you need on that HOTAS. In this respect the sim can be even more flexible than the real aircraft.

[karambiatos]

 

Also, just to note, the stick in the Ka-50 is for the right hand, the ABRIS and PVI-800 (or whatever its called) is on the right side. No real pilot in the midst of any maneuver is going to be able to use those systems. You think he's gonna reach across the stick with his left hand?

 

 

 

you can let go of the cyclic stick in the actual ka-50 because its FFB, most of the things are designed to be used with the right hand, granted some of the buttons are on down right stupid positions the countermeasures start and stop for example, and in a helicopter its more dangerous to let go of the collective than the cyclic.

 

@OP

id recommend you bind the autopilots (targeting and stabilization) to the keyboard, the weapons to along with the weapons panel to along with the laser on off to the switches at the base of the stick, the reset laser and warning reset to the HOTAS buttons at the base, so you dont have to fumble around with a mouse (well as much).

the ABRIS options are bound to 12345 by default.

[Jumbik]

My point was to avoid the need to create a 3 mode profile just for one aircraft. I wanted to use the mouse joy to click on essential things in cockpit to make it feel realistic in some way. I see that it will be near impossible to do so and I will still have to create the profile to make it possible to fly the heli aggresive enough.

 

Thank you all for you advices, It was helpfull.

[karambiatos]

i use one profile for it (other modes are for other aircraf), i seem to be doing fine. You can use the mouse joy to click places, you just meed to get the speed down, it takes some trial and error, but it becomes pretty usable.

[Jumbik]

I was able to use the mouse stick in a very limited way. It takes ages for me to aim at certain button because the oricentation of the axis is just not the right way. I always try to push the stick away of me when I want to move the mouse cursor up but it moves it right. It will take a lot of time to get used to it.

 

But the most anoying thing of it is certainly the acceleration. If the mouse cursor acceleration of the stick could be disabled then it would do wonders for me. It should move the same speed regardless of how much I press it because I do not have time to devote half of my brain capacity just to not move it too much to avoid half a screen move. Sometimes I feel like I'm in bed with my wife and I'm using my finger to do the same ... you need to be gentle as a butterlfy touch to avoid bitching betty response.

[PFunk1606688187]

you can let go of the cyclic stick in the actual ka-50 because its FFB, most of the things are designed to be used with the right hand, granted some of the buttons are on down right stupid positions the countermeasures start and stop for example, and in a helicopter its more dangerous to let go of the collective than the cyclic.

 

Whether you have FFB or not, basically while the pilot needs to be manipulating the cyclic he will not be trying to reach for controls in the right hand's general area of the cockpit. Its not really anything to do with home cockpit versus real cockpit, either way when the pilot has hand on cyclic he isn't keying the PVI-800. Its doubly unlikely since, as you say yourself, in a helo you need to worry more about collective than cyclic half the time.

 

Funny thing is my friend who is very good at flying the Ka-50 has his controls set up very differently from how they are on the real Ka-50 cyclic and collective because he likes to be able to cue targets with his HMD while doing hard turns, and if you used an identical layout to the Ka-50's you'd not be able to use the trim button and the designate target button at the same time.

 

Something tells me they never meant for the Ka-50 to do what he does based on how they laid the controls out.

[karambiatos]

But the most anoying thing of it is certainly the acceleration. If the mouse cursor acceleration of the stick could be disabled then it would do wonders for me. It should move the same speed regardless of how much I press it because I do not have time to devote half of my brain capacity just to not move it too much to avoid half a screen move. Sometimes I feel like I'm in bed with my wife and I'm using my finger to do the same ... you need to be gentle as a butterlfy touch to avoid bitching betty response.

 

i do not have mouse acceleration on it, are you sure you have mouse acceleration, and advanced whatchamacallit turned off as well in windows mouse options?

 

Whether you have FFB or not, basically while the pilot needs to be manipulating the cyclic he will not be trying to reach for controls in the right hand's general area of the cockpit. Its not really anything to do with home cockpit versus real cockpit, either way when the pilot has hand on cyclic he isn't keying the PVI-800. Its doubly unlikely since, as you say yourself, in a helo you need to worry more about collective than cyclic half the time.

 

Funny thing is my friend who is very good at flying the Ka-50 has his controls set up very differently from how they are on the real Ka-50 cyclic and collective because he likes to be able to cue targets with his HMD while doing hard turns, and if you used an identical layout to the Ka-50's you'd not be able to use the trim button and the designate target button at the same time.

 

Something tells me they never meant for the Ka-50 to do what he does based on how they laid the controls out.

 

well you wouldnt be keying the pvi while doing hard combar maneuvers, but for example the flare dispense, just boggles my mind, why isnt it on a joystick POV, same goes for the HMS on and off, and laser warning reset.

 

i dont have a lot of things laid out the same as in the ka-50, i have the heading autopilot on the pinky switch for example, because i like to be able to turn that stabilizer on an off, fast, and have a ton of mods in the cockpit.

but my target cue and trim is on the cyclic, and i havent had any issues with it, you dont need to be holding the trim while turning, and when its coupled with turn to target autopilot, it can be pretty nifty, at times.

but i really hate the trim logic in the ka-50, since you cant click trim, unless you have an FFB joystick apparently.

Edited May 15, 2014 by karambiatos

[Jumbik]

I do have standard acceleration turned off in windows for mouse. I do not know if the stick uses my mouse settings as it's default though but it behaves in following way:

 

If I touch the stick gently it moves just a bit, but if I press it a bit more the mouse will start moving a lot faster like an acceleration would be turned. The more I press the stick in one direction the faster it goes.

 

I would like to have it differently. The mouse should be moving at the same speed regardless of how much I press the stick.

[Blooze]

I was able to use the mouse stick in a very limited way. It takes ages for me to aim at certain button because the oricentation of the axis is just not the right way. I always try to push the stick away of me when I want to move the mouse cursor up but it moves it right. It will take a lot of time to get used to it.

 

But the most anoying thing of it is certainly the acceleration. If the mouse cursor acceleration of the stick could be disabled then it would do wonders for me. It should move the same speed regardless of how much I press it because I do not have time to devote half of my brain capacity just to not move it too much to avoid half a screen move. Sometimes I feel like I'm in bed with my wife and I'm using my finger to do the same ... you need to be gentle as a butterlfy touch to avoid bitching betty response.

Have you tried slowing down the mouse movement by using the Windows control panel? Click the pointer options tab and adjust speed.

[karambiatos]

I do have standard acceleration turned off in windows for mouse. I do not know if the stick uses my mouse settings as it's default though but it behaves in following way:

 

If I touch the stick gently it moves just a bit, but if I press it a bit more the mouse will start moving a lot faster like an acceleration would be turned. The more I press the stick in one direction the faster it goes.

 

I would like to have it differently. The mouse should be moving at the same speed regardless of how much I press the stick.

 

oh yes, thats because its an axis, behaves just like an analog stick youd find on a controller(only it has the precision of a bargepole).

 

you can get around it, if you go into the control panel for the joystick, and on the deadzones tab, set some big dead zones for the mouse X and Y, then go into the profile editor and slow down the ministicks sensitivity.

alternatively you could set it up to emulate keyboard buttons.

Edited May 15, 2014 by karambiatos

[Jumbik]

I will try to do so when I will be at home. I'm using programmable Logitech mouse which has it's own way how to increase or decrease mouse speed but that did not change anything for the joystick. I will test the windows settings today.

[Jumbik]

oh yes, thats because its an axis, behaves just like an analog stick youd find on a controller(only it has the precision of a bargepole).

 

you can get around it, if you go into the control panel for the joystick, and on the deadzones tab, set some big dead zones for the mouse X and Y, then go into the profile editor and slow down the ministicks sensitivity.

alternatively you could set it up to emulate keyboard buttons.

Aha, so it's like joystick axis instead of mouse emulation... hmm I understand now how to solve this issue. As you say I will create huge deadzone and set the sensitivity to minimum. Thank you.

[PFunk1606688187]

well you wouldnt be keying the pvi while doing hard combar maneuvers, but for example the flare dispense, just boggles my mind, why isnt it on a joystick POV, same goes for the HMS on and off, and laser warning reset.

Beats me. I find the ergonomics of the Ka-50 in general to be baffling at times.

 

but my target cue and trim is on the cyclic, and i havent had any issues with it, you dont need to be holding the trim while turning, and when its coupled with turn to target autopilot, it can be pretty nifty, at times.

Of course you don't have issues because you have a style which works with it. My friend however has a very aggressive style of flying where he blends lots of maneuvers with simultaneously doing target acquisition. Its the kind of thing where if he rolls into an ambush he isn't gonna turn tail and run, instead he's gonna go smashmouth and try to waste them then and there while dodging missiles and gunfire. Simply, what he does, and he does it well as I've witnessed, is simply not possible if he has to have the trimmer near his designate button. He has the trim on the pinky of his X52 with the designate on the clutch button.

[nwbasson]

Beats me. I find the ergonomics of the Ka-50 in general to be baffling at times.

 

 

Of course you don't have issues because you have a style which works with it. My friend however has a very aggressive style of flying where he blends lots of maneuvers with simultaneously doing target acquisition. Its the kind of thing where if he rolls into an ambush he isn't gonna turn tail and run, instead he's gonna go smashmouth and try to waste them then and there while dodging missiles and gunfire. Simply, what he does, and he does it well as I've witnessed, is simply not possible if he has to have the trimmer near his designate button. He has the trim on the pinky of his X52 with the designate on the clutch button.

 

I would love to see this, I have tried flying the Shark for a bit, got frustrated with the trimming and went to the A10.