Typhoon question - Pylons and Loads

[joey45]

And thus the story stops before lock.

[whiteladder]

Right, and? That's not what they are there to do, they are there to provide QRA Interceptor cover to the Falklands. They replaced Tornado F3s, which didn't have any kind of A/G capability, never mind anti-ship capability. And if you think we spend Billions on that then you're being daft.

 

Naval defence is the job of the Navy with all their VERY expensive toys.

 

My point is this the defence of the Falklands has always been based on the ability to rapidly re-enforce the islands with assets that could provide a credible defence and until recently this included significant anti shipping capability and we don`t have currently have any asset with a capability that is better than a typhoon armed with LGBs.

 

I don`t think we spend billions I know we have, current expenditure for defence of the islands is £70 million per year(although in years when a major deployment has taken place this has risen to £360 million.) and was significantly higher in the first decade. We have been paying this since 1982. Mount Pleasant cost £640 million to construct, what does a Typhoon cost these days £50 million( or £125 million including development cost)?

 

The RN haven`t had a permanent SSN stationed the South Atlantic since before the numbers were reduce to 7 subs, as with refits and training commitments they haven`t had more than 3 available for deployment world wide.

 

And the ship that is deployed is on the Southern Ocean station, so could be anywhere from the ascension island to South Africa. When HMS Dauntless was deploy in 2012 it had no AShM fitted at all, the type 45`s only getting Harpoon as and when they become available from decommisioned type 23 frigates.

 

The RAF slept walked into losing this capability, when Sea Eagle was retired we still had Harpoon deployed on Nimrod. When MRA4 was cancelled the RAF lost any Anti shipping capability. The chief of the Defence Staff(at the time in 2010 an RAF Air Vice Marshal) was asked in front of the defence select commitee about the loss of capability. His response was that the RAF still had this with Storm shadow, which was either a deliberate lie on his part or more worryingly a lack of understanding of his own weapons systems. Storm Shadow is currently only able to attack ships at anchor in port.

 

Clearly we are not going to agree on this, so I will let these good people get on with their discussion, apologies to them for the direction this thread has taken.

Edited June 4, 2014 by whiteladder

[Eddie]

....and we don`t have currently have any asset with a capability that is better than a typhoon armed with LGBs.

 

The T2 jets at MPA don't have any useful AG capability, yet.

 

I don`t think we spend billions I know we have, current expenditure for defence of the islands is £70 million per year(although in years when a major deployment has taken place this has risen to £360 million.) and was significantly higher in the first decade. We have been paying this since 1982. Mount Pleasant cost £640 million to construct, what does a Typhoon cost these days £50 million( or £125 million including development cost)?

 

The vast majority of that has nothing at all to do with Typhoon or the cost of keeping 4 down at 1435. Without Typhoon we'd still be spending not far off that amount on MPA etc. 4 jets and a few ground crew are nothing compared to the cost of keeping the Army down there. Yes maintain a force presence down south cost a fortune, but that vast majority of it has nothing to do with the air defence aspect of 4 Typhoon's.

 

I'm not flat out dismissing your points, but they are somewhat flawed and one sided. And you're making the cardinal sin that often happens around here (and is guaranteed to rile me up) of assuming you somehow are better placed to determine the best strategic/tactical decisions than those of us actually involved in making them for real. This thread was discussing Typhoon and its capabilities, not a series of ifs and buts.

 

In this day and age we don't need to keep everything down there all the time, but even more importantly we just can't. As long as people want new roads, the NHS, Police and all the other stuff the country simply can't afford it. Hell the only reason we have Typhoon is because the cost is split 4 ways (although it some aspect would perhaps be cheaper if it weren't).

 

 

Hell, we don't have a Anti-Radiation missile capability anymore but I don't see people moaning about that. And that was far more useful (on paper at least) than land based anti-shipping.

 

Oh and for the record, cancelling MRA4 was one of the stupidest decisions ever made, but it's a political one, not a military one, unlike stationing Typhoon down south. And even if we did have Sea Eagle still, Typhoon still wouldn't be able to carry it anyway.

[Emu]

The T2 jets at MPA don't have any useful AG capability, yet.

 

 

 

The vast majority of that has nothing at all to do with Typhoon or the cost of keeping 4 down at 1435. Without Typhoon we'd still be spending not far off that amount on MPA etc. 4 jets and a few ground crew are nothing compared to the cost of keeping the Army down there. Yes maintain a force presence down south cost a fortune, but that vast majority of it has nothing to do with the air defence aspect of 4 Typhoon's.

 

I'm not flat out dismissing your points, but they are somewhat flawed and one sided. And you're making the cardinal sin that often happens around here (and is guaranteed to rile me up) of assuming you somehow are better placed to determine the best strategic/tactical decisions than those of us actually involved in making them for real. This thread was discussing Typhoon and its capabilities, not a series of ifs and buts.

 

In this day and age we don't need to keep everything down there all the time, but even more importantly we just can't. As long as people want new roads, the NHS, Police and all the other stuff the country simply can't afford it. Hell the only reason we have Typhoon is because the cost is split 4 ways (although it some aspect would perhaps be cheaper if it weren't).

 

 

Hell, we don't have a Anti-Radiation missile capability anymore but I don't see people moaning about that. And that was far more useful (on paper at least) than land based anti-shipping.

 

Oh and for the record, cancelling MRA4 was one of the stupidest decisions ever made, but it's a political one, not a military one, unlike stationing Typhoon down south. And even if we did have Sea Eagle still, Typhoon still wouldn't be able to carry it anyway.

Dropping the Nimrod was financial. It was so near to completion. The simulator was even installed at Kinloss. It could be resurrected for a 3rd time if the economy picks up but they should have just built a new aircraft rather than using the Comet fuselage.

 

I've heard talk of an ARM version of the Meteor and it sounds like a great idea. Maybe we could even have a dual role version. I'd suggest it to MBDA but I don't have a Twitter account.:D

 

My other idea was fitting a conventional warhead and an anti-ship seeker to a French ASMP-A. 500-600km range at Mach 3.

[Emu]

Topical:

 

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140609/DEFREG01/306090023/Eurofighter-Studying-Missiles-Give-Typhoon-Maritime-Attack-Capability

 

SEVILLA, SPAIN — Eurofighter is looking at giving the Typhoon a maritime attack capability and is investigating at least three missiles to meet potential requirements for export, according to the executive leading Airbus Defence and Space combat aircraft sales effort.

 

At least two of Typhoon’s current export targets are requesting a maritime attack capability. Peter Maute, the head of combat aircraft sales at Airbus Defence, said the Boeing Harpoon and MBDA’s Marte and Sea Brimstone missiles were being considered as possibilities for the European multi-role combat jet.

 

http://www.finmeccanica.com/en/-/marte

 

Edited June 10, 2014 by Emu

[whiteladder]

It could be resurrected for a 3rd time if the economy picks up but they should have just built a new aircraft rather than using the Comet fuselage.

 

 

 

I don`t know what happened to the rest of the airframes, but we have one of them at the place were I work.

 

 

 

[Emu]

So sad.