Other side of the coin...

[outlawal2]

Considering the flak and BS that ED has taken over the WW2 project, I kind of wish they would have just cancelled the whole project and let Ilya and RRG contend with their own mess of incompetence and then a year later after it was all over, ED could start their own WW2 project...

 

Now ED gets to contend with someone else's delusional incompetence and they get drug through the mud over it...

 

The biggest disappointment I have with the whole thing is that there are so many people that want to "Stick" a company or another person, and play the system to get something for nothing... Any human being that thinks it is reasonable to get a fully functional airframe for $1 is delusional.. (And while I too may throw my dollar in, in the hopes that maybe something will come of it, to push the whole thing and threaten legal action or other such BS is just that.. BS)

 

There are a lot of companies that DO try to screw folks over and that is why there are laws in place to curb that behavior..

 

But the other side of that coin is a whole lot of unscrupulous people that try to "Work the system" to their own advantage and get something for nothing.. and then try to justify their deplorable behavior by saying they are standing up for the principle of the thing. Or some other blather..

 

Unfortunately, they are the ones that have no principles and muddy up the waters for individuals that DO have a legitimate bitch about a company or unscrupulous individual...

 

Somedays I am ashamed to be a member of the human race.. :cry:

[Dogz]

Any human being that thinks it is reasonable to get a fully functional airframe for $1 is delusional..

 

What surprises me most, is actually the hostility of some backers towards the lower level backers. Calling them trolls and "not real backers" and so on. I really don't understand the motivation behind it, as if it would be something taken away from the rest.

 

Between the lines can read the message that the lower level backers are accused of being in it just for financial gain. Let's recall how the KS campaign went. Originally everybody (I mean everybody, did not have to be a backer even) was promised three free planes. Everybody. The only thing that lower level backers were getting was "... access to the backer section with weekly development updates, videos ... plus early access to the game’s closed beta." It was only later, when the fully free planes for everybody were taken down from three to one.

 

The level that was marketed to backers as "all flyable aircraft in the game (this will grow with the stretch goals and possibly end up offering a huge value!)" came at $40 backer level.

 

Anyway, I am not here to pick a fight. Just don't understand the hostility of some people towards the lower level backers.

[outlawal2]

What surprises me most, is actually the hostility of some backers towards the lower level backers. Calling them trolls and "not real backers" and so on. I really don't understand the motivation behind it, as if it would be something taken away from the rest.

 

Between the lines can read the message that the lower level backers are accused of being in it just for financial gain. Let's recall how the KS campaign went. Originally everybody (I mean everybody, did not have to be a backer even) was promised three free planes. Everybody. The only thing that lower level backers were getting was "... access to the backer section with weekly development updates, videos ... plus early access to the game’s closed beta." It was only later, when the fully free planes for everybody were taken down from three to one.

 

The level that was marketed to backers as "all flyable aircraft in the game (this will grow with the stretch goals and possibly end up offering a huge value!)" came at $40 backer level.

 

Anyway, I am not here to pick a fight. Just don't understand the hostility of some people towards the lower level backers.

 

And I have no hostility toward any backer of any level that are legitimately backing a project... (Whether a dollar or $100 they are contributing to the project... My beef as stated in the original post is with the folks that are clearly trying to twist the situation around for their own gain and then try to make it look like they are taking the moral high ground while screwing ED over...)

 

I will say that the vast majority of folks I believe have been reasonable and accepting of Ed's proposal, it is just that the unscrupulous ones seem to want to make the most noise and make things much worse than they really are...

 

Sad

[rubblebeam]

You made your point now close this down it's an obvious troll post looking for a rise from the unhappy backers

[Double_D]

enough now close this..and put a stop to being bitter..about what had happened..its a done deal..now move on...:thumbup:

[Grim_Smiles]

Nice post Outlaw. I'd also like to add that these people constantly bringing up lawsuits and ED's liability needs to stop. Unless someone commenting has been to law school and is a licensed attorney, they do not know what the hell they are talking about. They can think they know law all they want, but the reality is they are discussing an issue they have no knowledge or training in.

 

They keep bringing up that one case when a state AG is taking a KS company to court, but that is an entirely different situation. Based on the information available it appears that company never had the intention of ever providing a product to those backers, which is why they have a fraud case against them. RRG appears to have had every intention of providing a product but they bit off more than could chew and went under, and ED picked it up and is trying to do what they can to the best of their ability. The two cases aren't remotely the same.

 

So if someone is that bent out of shape over what is going on that they would actually pay lawyer fees (in the thousands) over $40 KS backing, then I suggest you go speak to a lawyer. If you aren't a lawyer, don't bother trying to regal us with knowledge you don't have on a subject you have no training in (and on the small chance that someone is actually a lawyer, why the hell are you bothering to go over this on an internet forum, who are you trying to impress?).

[Scrim]

Threatening legal action over a dollar seems, eh, special?

 

What I find myself wondering is why this backer option was ever allowed? If ED finds it financially unviable, then certainly that must've been the case for RRG as well. I don't believe ED wasn't told of that detail before consenting to the project, and thus I question their reasoning behind actually accepting a DCS project in which a $1US contribution would translate into receiving a $50US module.

[dwpenney]

Considering the flak and BS that ED has taken over the WW2 project, I kind of wish they would have just cancelled the whole project and let Ilya and RRG contend with their own mess of incompetence and then a year later after it was all over, ED could start their own WW2 project...

 

 

Some people would still be unhappy. This is a situation where there is no answer that makes everyone happy, just attempts to minimize that pool of potential customers.

 

Think about it an anticipate the response. People would still be upset because then they would have gotten nothing and would be forced to buy the aircraft they had already paid for again. No matter what ED did, there would be unhappiness in the forums.

 

Personally, I appreciate getting something. I don't blame ED and Kickstarter has some risk inherent in it's purpose. I do blame RRG for being unrealistic, chaotic and confused.

 

In the end, there still would have been tears.

[ishtmail]

What hostility towards lower backers? I have frequented the threads quite a bit and remember no such thing.

 

Also, I think the backers in general were very much kosher about the whole rewards system that ED has envisioned, and once the comments were heard about the fixed airplane rewards (P51D for $20) and how it would be better to let us choose, ED did the most gallant thing and revised the backer rewards to make most everyone happy.

 

There are those who still feel aggravated at not getting 6 airplanes for $40, but they are few and far between, and I don't pay any heed to them.

 

 

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I am thoroughly annoyed at the idea that ED had nothing to do with the campaign though, and even more so at the idea that they are now doing everyone a favor by honoring the pledges. Now I've written this before, but it needs to be said again:

 

Perhaps technically, legally, RRG was the only party involved, but morally, ethically, ED has been very closely involved: they gave RRG serials for P51D and Dora, to use as backer rewards; they advertised the project very much, set up the Paypal page on their website, even set up the Backer section in our DCS profiles. They even gave RRG access to P51D and Dora modules, to use in DCS:WW2. Far too much involvement to just shrug it off and say "RRG is the involved party here".

 

Secondly, ED is not continuing the project only to appease the campaign backers. That would be foolish. That would be disastrous. We raised $150k, not even enough to develop ONE aircraft. And yet, ED has seemingly decided to go forward with the project and develop ALL airplanes (four).

Would ED do this just for us, the backers? No. They are doing it for the tens of thousands of WW2 flight sim fans out there who are thirsting for a DCS quality WW2 sim.

 

The 2500 backers are a very very small insignificant portion of the full WW2 sim market.

So, writing that ED is doing us all a huge favor by continuing the project is a completely wrong thing to do, because ED would NEVER continue this project if they didn't have a business plan in place, making this project economically viable and profitable.

 

ED has picked up RRG's remains because they can sell the product, not because they want to serve the backers.

 

 

That being said, I am grateful to ED for doing it, all the same, simply because I am one of the fans thirsting for a proper WW2 sim. And while objectively I know that ED honoring the pledge rewards is simply the right thing to do for your loyal consumers, who will remain loyal because of being treated right, I am still grateful to ED for providing the backers with a decent reward system.

 

 

 

Anyhoo, I would appreciate if everyone came to these two realizations:

 

1. That ED is doing its best to make this project work for most everyone

2. That ED is not doing this project for the backers, but for the much wider audience