F-15 Radar bugs?

[capttrob]

All my shots today were within Rtr near 300agl (definitely below 1000). I dont even think Rtr is further than 10 miles at that altitude.

 

But thanks for the info, i'll keep it within the ASE longer from now on...

 

By the way, i never run... i have other methods i use for evasion, which seem to be getting alot better. I almost had to pat myself on the back after seeing i dodged 11 missles in a less than 1 min timeframe from two bandits today...lol

 

Although, i did see someone turn tail more than once today... ;)

 

He still shot me down though...

[3Sqn_Fudd]

Anyone know of a place where we could post tracks for ourselves (as we argue...lol) and developers?

 

It would help focus our arguments about missle behavior.

[capttrob]

I just looked through the top 5 or 6 guys on 169th stats board. All with the exception of Taipan have used russian sticks as their weapon of choice. Pilotasso even knows to use the AIM7 more than the 120.

 

Nice job Taipan. PM me with some tips! :-)

[Gripes]

I never launch a 120 outside of Rtr. Unless i put out a "feeler" with HOJ. I have never gotten a hit with HOJ, even when the target is within Rmax (turns off jammer for a second and i can see)...

 

I did get couple of HOJ kills on 504 server, few day ago. A rare and

religious experience... so, I have to share it!

I was at 43k feet, Mach1 in a lofting pitch up (not that it matters)

and I pickled 2 slammers HOJ at a group of SU27s (they had their radars on - giving me a pretty good range "feeler") from R-aero (or so I thought;)) and... both of the shots connected. I was stunned!

One of the Flankers turned its jammer off momentarily but it seems like

the missile re-aquired him or never lost him. Must have been a glitch

in the code, hehe.

[snomhf]

Can someone please explain to me how I can tell when my 120 goes active? I have read the manual over and over hoping to see something about this that I have missed. The countdown on the hud appears to be TTI and does not seem to show TTA. In Falcon4, the countdown changes from "T.." to "A.." or something like that making it obvious.

 

Am I missing something on this? Having a clear understanding of that I think would take us a long way toward better accuracy with the AMRAAM.

[GGTharos]

No need to keep the box in the ASE after launching the 7. It may have required so originally -at launch- because ti was a beam-rider, but once it's on the way, you can maneuver so long as you maintain lock on your target.

 

The AMRAAM is autonomous once active, and wether you have a lock on target or not doesn't matter at that point.

 

You can tell when the 120 goes active via the count-down timer ... yep, it's there. People complain it doesn't show TTA but it does. I use it all the time!

 

Sadly I only remember how it works during play.

[capttrob]

This is the only reference i found about ARH being active...

 

"Two seconds after launch, the missile’s active radar homing (ARH) seeker is switched

on and Slammer will search for targets within its seeker’s field of view."

 

This is under printed under visual mode page 83.

[Pilotasso]

I agree. You'd think by reading all these "Amraam sucks" posts, it could shoot down only bad rookie pilots, or someone by pure luck.

 

This is so misleading and has nothing to do with actual online experience.

 

If I'm talking bullshit, just check the stats. The missile is not modelled perfectly but sure as hell works quite well when being used properly.

 

Reading all this stuff "the AMRAAM sucks as it should", it only confirms that you never flown the F-15 online seriously. If you shot it and see it miss a 6 mile shot to a target against the ground and comming at you, I bet then you wouldn say this. What the AMRAAM is suffering right now is what I would expect from the R-27, and all combat records showing Mig-29's being targeted either by AMRAAM's and R-27's is a very good clue of this. If you prefer to look to the side and pretend this is not credible in your mind, then this is a simptom of a denial.

 

But since the R-27ER is racking up kills online with no problems in the same scenario as I described above I guess you are pretty conforted with it and you wont question its perfomance.

 

Saying that the AMRAAM is fine as it is now with such aparent conviction, is insulting the intelligence of anyone that ever flies the F-15 and has more experince of actualy using it.

[GGTharos]

I guarantee you the 27 underperforms the 120 in LO as it should ... in this case it's pilot knowledge/skill in dodging it.

 

However the point is, that there exists a flaw that affects /all/ the radar guided missiles in this sim and it needs to be fixed.

 

Let me make it very, very clear: Under -no- circumstances should you be able to survive an NEZ radar-guided missiles shot in the face the way you can now, -especially- the AMRAAM, and potentially the 77 as well. The 27 and the 7 should likewise have -low- failure rates under those circumstances.

 

Not for the player-flyable plane's missiles. No amount of chaff or head-on barrel rolling should save you. You'd have to do something else, you'd have to use -everything- ... maneuvering, your SPJ, decoys ... and this is simply NOT the case in LOMAC.

[capttrob]

 

You can tell when the 120 goes active via the count-down timer ... yep, it's there. People complain it doesn't show TTA but it does. I use it all the time!

 

Sadly I only remember how it works during play.

 

 

I just spent a ew minutes in the quick fly on the start page.

 

I didnt see TTI or TTA on the hud or VSD at all. Am i looking at the wrong thing?

 

The only thing i see is TM (Time for missle impact?) or M with two numbers (i assume this is for TWS?... although i wasnt in TWS mode, it was shown when targeting one of the Su-23's in formation.)

[GGTharos]

If you're so close that the missile will go active right off the rail (7nm) then you won't get a TTA. Just a TTI for missile one, and TTI for missile two.

 

If you launch at somwthing that's 20nm out, you'll see the TTI/TTA at work.

[capttrob]

Does it say "TTI/A" on the HUD? I figured the longer the range, the longer for ARH to become active, so i extended out a bit and turned to engage the two Su-23's at about 25 miles (Then again, i'd NEVER launch that far out online... its a waste of a 120... only Rtr for me if i want to hit 1 out of 5...lol). All i saw on the lower left of the HUD was M 6 23 in BVR RWS (numbers arent exact, but you get my point). Is this the countdown? When i launched, the 6 started down and the 23 stayed put (IIRC). I thought this type of countdown was for TWS? Maybe im getting it confused.. .dunno.

 

Did some practice with FLOOD for the 7 and visual for the 120. That works very well.

[GGTharos]

Yeah, this is the countdown. The M 6 23 counts down the TTA first, then TTI from there. I really need to try it out to recall how it works, I always know how its working while I play.

 

It may be that you don't get an 'A' which then switches to a 'T' or 'M', which is how it's supposed to be, and instead you need to realize what's being counted on your own.

[capttrob]

Ok, thanks GG, i'll keep a closer eye on it...

 

 

By the way... i now realize you dont have to keep the box in the center of the ASE. All my AIM-7's and AIM-120's were always locked when i launched, after launch, and during hit or miss. The AIM-7 i just thought i had to keep in the center of ASE (sort of like FLOOD). I now see this is not the case.... thanks for the tips...

 

Although, the way some of these 120's track, perhaps i should keep them in the center of the ASE for its entire flight...lol

[GGTharos]

Won't matter one bit, their radars are independent of yours.

[snomhf]

Just finished testing with the 120. When you launch, lower left corner shows TTA countdown flashing. Once the missile's radar takes over, a NEW count begins. This is VERY hard to see but if you watch close you'll see it go like: "12, 11, 10, 14, 13, 12, 11, ..." When you see a change in the sequence, that's when the missile goes active. Pretty dumb if you ask me. Who's got time to watch for the time sequence to change? I sure do wish the "M" would change to "A" or something like that to sort of help you out.

 

Capt Rob, I'm still wondering if you (and others who score low with the 120) are not breaking off before it goes active. Practice with some drones until you are comfortable with the switchover. I agree that the 120 (as well as the other radar missiles) are probably too easy to evade, especially after they go active but I think we further degrade it by breaking off too soon. I know I have been.

[GGTharos]

A bug is a bug :)

[capttrob]

 

Capt Rob, I'm still wondering if you (and others who score low with the 120) are not breaking off before it goes active. Practice with some drones until you are comfortable with the switchover. I agree that the 120 (as well as the other radar missiles) are probably too easy to evade, especially after they go active but I think we further degrade it by breaking off too soon. I know I have been.

 

I never break off. My evasion techniques keep the lock at all times while maneuvering till it either hits or misses. Now my evasion techniques were very poor when i started getting use to the "simmisms" of this game. But they are progessively getting better as i fine tune and get more used to the flight model(s).

 

edit: The countdown isnt particularly hard to see for me, especially with TIR4. I just wasnt clear on what it was counting down. After a few practice runs watching the count, there is nothing i need to change from what i was doing before. My kill ratio is actually almost 100% when flying the "quick fly" from the start-up screen on Ace settings. I know human pilots evade much better.. but 20% hit ratio? My 7's land with much more accuracy online vs the 120's. From what i understand, it should be the other way around..

 

Thanks for your input snomhf... and get your butt online so i can have a good wingman in the 15!

[Pilotasso]

Just finished testing with the 120. When you launch, lower left corner shows TTA countdown flashing. Once the missile's radar takes over, a NEW count begins. This is VERY hard to see but if you watch close you'll see it go like: "12, 11, 10, 14, 13, 12, 11, ..." When you see a change in the sequence, that's when the missile goes active. Pretty dumb if you ask me. Who's got time to watch for the time sequence to change? I sure do wish the "M" would change to "A" or something like that to sort of help you out.

 

 

No so sure its a bug. Remenber while the missile is heading on its way to target the conditions of the engagement change and the missiles ETA to home may have to be readjusted. The only way it should work linearly is if flies a straight line into a non manuevering target.

 

Am I right?

[dynamocl]

From a pure sim attack aircraft pilot's perspective (25T and A-10) I can tell you all ATA missiles are far too effective, Aim 120, R77 the works are far too troublesome at the moment. Devs should make them less effective, not more.

 

The forum is a buzz at the moment at all you poor fighter pilots moaning that you can't get 1 shot kills, and that radars can't scan through mountains. From my perspective, you guys are pains enough without these "mega fixes".

 

PS - any hints on avoiding you guys are welcome (at the moment the best success rate us strike aircraft can hope for is to stay at the home plate - far too many fighters around).

[Pilotasso]

From a pure sim attack aircraft pilot's perspective (25T and A-10) I can tell you all ATA missiles are far too effective, Aim 120, R77 the works are far too troublesome at the moment.

 

Your kiding right? I cant remenber the last time I hit an A-10 or a SU-25 with an AMRAAM. they always go balistic against such slow aircraft.

 

Yesterday it came to guns, it was SL-PAK's Su-25. I emptied everything on his aircraft, all missiles went by into the ground and all my guns shels werent enough to bring it down. All I did was to damage it. And pak landed his paint scratched aircraft on a weat field!!

[GGTharos]

From a pure sim attack aircraft pilot's perspective (25T and A-10) I can tell you all ATA missiles are far too effective, Aim 120, R77 the works are far too troublesome at the moment. Devs should make them less effective, not more.

 

The forum is a buzz at the moment at all you poor fighter pilots moaning that you can't get 1 shot kills, and that radars can't scan through mountains. From my perspective, you guys are pains enough without these "mega fixes".

 

PS - any hints on avoiding you guys are welcome (at the moment the best success rate us strike aircraft can hope for is to stay at the home plate - far too many fighters around).

 

Missiles can be beamed and decoyed. I have seen Su-25's dodgemy weapons many, many times. I have also seen Su-25's just plain old fly straight into my weapons.

 

Guess which pilot it was that had a clue about what was going on and knew how to dodge a missile ...

 

In short, use chaff, use the notch, and use your fighter cover, too.

[snomhf]

No so sure its a bug.

It was GGT calling it a "bug", not me. Maybe you meant to quote him and not me. I'm trying to stay out of that fight (being the noob here and all). I'm just whining that the hud ques are not as good as they should be with respect to AR.

[snomhf]

Now my evasion techniques were very poor when i started getting use to the "simmisms" of this game. But they are progessively getting better as i fine tune and get more used to the flight model(s).

 

Capt Rob,

Have you seen this?

 

http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?p=180601#post180601

 

It looks promising. I think I'm going to give it a shot.

[capttrob]

Yeah, i downloaded it. Havent watched it yet though....

 

TDW has some good stuff on that site of his...