F-15C multiplayer tips/help?

[Serpent Reaver]

Hi everybody! I am 'Serpent' in-game and I am new to DCS, but I have done a lot of research (reading manuals, watching tutorials) and now capable of actually flying the F-15C in multiplayer skirmishes. But, I still need to know more, especially about ways I can become hidden from enemy rRdar Warning Receiver, understanding Radar modes and what they are best used for, ways to manoeuvre properly in dogfights or tactics to defeat the opponent in a dogfight.

 

I prefer the F-15C than the the SU-27 because of its 'easier' feel and BVR advantage. While I know both planes have significant advantages, I am leaning closer to the F-15C.

 

I would like to know when to use ECM or how I should use it.

 

I would like to know the idea of the TWS mode and what it is used for. Does it let the target know it is being locked if I lock it in that mode?

 

If I turn on my radar, does the enemy detect me by their Radar Warning Receiver? (So if I turn the radar off I will be hidden from it?)

 

I will have more questions as I continue to learn more DCS. I have always been interested in aviation, but thanks to Eagle Dynamics for creating the best flight simulator ever, I am now even more enthusiastic about aviation.

 

Oh and I cannot wait for the Eurofighter Typhoon next year. Oh my goodness!

[FLANKERATOR]

Welcome Serpent. That's the kind of topic that attracts lot of attention. I'm sure many veteran pilots will point you in the right direction.

It's long way to go, but as long as you're motivated, you'll keep climbing up the steep PvP learning curve.

[Tricky11]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=128988

 

Have a read through this section.. Good pointers in there

[TAW_Blaze]

But, I still need to know more, especially about ways I can become hidden from enemy rRdar Warning Receiver

 

You don't hide from a receiver. A receiver is a passive device analyzing incoming signals.

 

understanding Radar modes and what they are best used for

 

Mostly the following works as a rule of thumb:

 

1) RWS for general search.

 

2) TWS to gain further information on a target without locking him. Bugging him will give you his heading, speed, altitude, in case you are within 25nm, it also identifies most aircraft on the VSD.

 

3) TWS for generally engaging one or multiple targets. TWS AMRAAM launch will only give a warning when the missile is active ( ~ 8nm from target). That is considered a big advantage by most of the people flying around.

 

4) STT for close range engagements, especially when you can't afford to lose lock. STT launches will give immediate warning even in case of an AMRAAM.

 

5) AAQ modes for dogfighting and other situations where you can visually find the other guy.

 

PRF usage: inside 25nm: MED; outside 25nm use HI. Mixed alternates between the two and isn't very good in general. Note that in MED PRF you won't see much further than 25nm. HI PRF will generally make it impossible to track any targets flying past beam aspect.

 

ways to manoeuvre properly in dogfights or tactics to defeat the opponent in a dogfight.

 

I won't go to anything specific to dogfighting, however I'll tell you the fundamentals of BVR before any other delusional people tell you otherwise. (assuming straight up fight)

 

1) You need more energy than the other guy. Be faster, be higher.

 

2) Crank. This means you take an offset from the guy to the point where you see him on the edge of the VSD. This will make his missiles fly a longer path until they get to you. When you want to launch, it is recommended to exit the crank and fire at the most optimal launch condition.

 

3) Make sure no matter what you're doing you do it first. Reactions don't win a fight unless the other guy makes mistakes.

 

4) Know your aircraft and it's equipment, and know the enemy's aircraft and equipment.

 

I would like to know when to use ECM or how I should use it.

 

ECM will basically block anyone from seeing your exact position outside about 25nm. Inside that they will usually see you. Use it whenever you think it's important to hide your exact position, while it is none of your concern to be sneaky. Specific conditions to turn it off are extending, RTBing, or anything that involves flying head straight back to your team. Note that no fighter will see you outside 25nm past beam aspect at the moment.

 

I would like to know the idea of the TWS mode and what it is used for. Does it let the target know it is being locked if I lock it in that mode?

 

See above. It's a surveillance mode with the ability to launch on multiple targets at the same time if necessary. TWS bug gives no lock tone.

 

If I turn on my radar, does the enemy detect me by their Radar Warning Receiver?

 

If you point your radar at the enemy, usually yes. I say usually because there are angular limitations of the receivers, and if you work around them you may be able to have a lock on a guy without him actually knowing. Uncommon and risky. I mean your typical idea of fighting is not pulling on some guy from vertically above or below..

 

More typical example would be that the guy is in a heavy bank and for that reason he puts you outside the angular limit.

 

Generally a receiver will detect a threat much further than you will detect the guy on your radar.

 

(So if I turn the radar off I will be hidden from it?)

 

Yes, radar off you won't show on their receiver. BUT TURNING YOUR RADAR OFF DOES NOT MEAN YOU'RE INVISIBLE ON THEIR RADAR. !!!

 

Welp, I guess I just made a how to become a fighter pilot in 2 minutes. :megalol:

Edited December 18, 2014 by <Blaze>

[fitness88]

Blaze thank you for that very informative post!

[Serpent Reaver]

Woah! Thank you very much Blaze, that is a very informing post. Now I cannot wait to get home this Sunday and see if I can use these ideas next time. I usually have always left my radar on to spot any threats; I had never thought the enemy would be able to pick my radar up. From now on I will approach from the flank flying either very low or very high for a stealthy approach (I hope it would work, it is nice fo develop my own skillset!)

 

Though I have another question regarding the SU-27 medium range missiles. Soecifically the R-27ER. In multiplayer, those missiles always seem to get me, no matter how hard I turn or how much chaff I dump, it seems to get me. I was reading somewhere that it is semi-active and requires the SU-27 to maintain lock until the missile goes fully active. Do you know any ways to dodge the R-27ER?

[OnlyforDCS]

The R-27ER is a SARH or semi-active radar homing missile. In plain english this means that the plane (in this case the Su27) needs to maintain a radar lock on a target constantly for the missile seeker head to track the radar beam reflection and guide to the target. The missile doesnt have an active seeker.

 

This means that to effectively spoof the ER missile, all you need to do is break the lock of the attacking aricraft.

 

Are you familiar with your RWR in the F15C?

Edited December 19, 2014 by OnlyforDCS

[TAW_Blaze]

I usually have always left my radar on to spot any threats

 

I recommend to continue that. Generally online there's exactly one person who you can rely on, yourself. Most important is to make sure nobody gets close to you unnoticed. A large percent of your time should be spent scanning close to you at all altitudes. Most commonly this means inside 30nm with MED PRF. But you don't want to miss the guys further out either, because the further you spot someone the better you can prepare your engagement.

 

Once you've flown a bit online you'll realize the idiotic trend of people flying low no matter what, so your search habits will also make a trend of looking low. Make sure you check high altitudes aswell, every now and then you see some guys flying in space. :)

 

From now on I will approach from the flank flying either very low or very high for a stealthy approach (I hope it would work, it is nice fo develop my own skillset!)

 

I'd say trying to be stealthy when you have next to no knowledge is suicidal. Start the simple way of focusing one thing at a time, learn your systems, learn the opponents' systems, understand the basics of fighting in a straight duel situation. On a server situation it is far more reliable to approach the non-sneaky way and focus on building an SA of everything around you. If you try to sneak around you'll restrict yourself from a lot of knowledge about the things happening around you.

 

Soecifically the R-27ER. In multiplayer, those missiles always seem to get me, no matter how hard I turn or how much chaff I dump, it seems to get me.

 

Impossible to answer this question without seeing what happened. Install tacview, it's an amazing analysis tool. Unfortunately you have to run the tracks of your flight to record it in tacview as the export function is blocked in most servers to prevent people cheating.

 

I was reading somewhere that it is semi-active and requires the SU-27 to maintain lock until the missile goes fully active. Do you know any ways to dodge the R-27ER?

 

Of course. Start by defending against missiles before they were launched. How?

 

1) Energetic advantage. His missiles will have to climb uphill.

 

2) Crank!

 

3) Maneuver! Nothing makes a better target than a straight flying guy.

 

There are other ways but the ones above used properly will defeat them reliably. What matters most is the following though:

 

Everything you do is in the context of WHEN. If you do it too late, none of it matters. If you do it too early, it's pointless. You need a lot of experience to understand every single time that a shot in this specific scenario is a kill and another in a slightly different scenario is a miss.

[Serpent Reaver]

Crank? Is that an immediate slow-down (airbrakes, lower the thrust, hard turn) ? Sorry - Still new :D

[FLANKERATOR]

Means do not fly straight towards your opponent, rather create some angle while steering your radar to keep him covered. Maximum crank angle depends on how far your radar can physically steer.

 

Cranking allows you to reduce closure while keeping your target inside your own radar cone. Very useful especially when your BVR weapons have more range, also forces your opponent to get significantly closer to get a launch authorization. Missiles flying towards you will also bleed more energy when your crank, as most use lead pursuit geometry.

[TAW_Blaze]

I explained what crank is in the first post. :)

[Serpent Reaver]

Thank you very much Blaze - last night I managed to down 4 bandits in one entire flight. It isnthanks to you and your knowledge that you shared with me that I was able to do this.

 

Now I do have some trouble with missile evasion now and then. Sometimes I will soam my Q and dive straight down and away from the missile as hard as I could (even with afterburners off) but I still seem to be hit. I sould assume it is because I wasn't doing something right and that the missile was probably too close for an evasion. Do you know any ideas or manoeuvres I can learn from on dodging different (Russian) missiles? Any images I can see that demonstrate it?

[TAW_Blaze]

Sometimes I will soam my Q and dive straight down and away from the missile as hard as I could (even with afterburners off) but I still seem to be hit. I sould assume it is because I wasn't doing something right and that the missile was probably too close for an evasion.

 

The thing is, there's a border and if you cross it there's little chance to dodge any missiles. This border is drawn based on the situation between the 2 guys fighting. An experienced pilot can foresee what would probably work in a certain situation.

 

The most important thing about defeating missiles is to identify when, where, and how they were launched. It isn't only important that how far the guy launched, you need to know relative altitudes, speeds, aspects to be able to judge how dangerous the missile is going to be.

 

Generally evading a missile can be done by 2 different approaches:

 

1) you defeat the missile kinematically

 

This means you make the missile fly a path such that it simply won't reach you. It is by far the preferred way of avoiding missiles as with enough information at hand this will dodge any missile if executed correctly. The most basic tool of this method is cranking, you can combine that with extending, snaking, and a bunch of other things. Rapid changes in direction while flying high and fast can also cause the missile to bleed a lot of it's speed trying to follow you.

 

Obviously this method only works up to a certain range as within that the missile will have the energy to reach you. Which leads us to the other option:

 

2) you defeat the guidance

 

Depending on the type of missile you're fighting, which you should already know the moment when you detected the launch, there'll be different things you want to do.

 

Against radar guided missiles we can dissect the options into some further sub options:

 

a) Notch : this means you fly perpendicular and below to the guiding radar (note I say guiding radar, in case of SARH it is the aircraft, in case of an ARH it's the missile). Done properly this will make you invisible to the radar as long as you maintain a perfect perpendicular angle. As much as a few degrees deviation could already make this move worthless, and you're trying to stay perpendicular to a fast target, so you can guess how difficult this is.

 

b) Vertical climb/dive : similar to the first option but less effective, yet much easier to execute.

 

c) Chaff. Chaff is most effective when used with combination of a) or b). Flying head on towards a target and spamming chaff will do very little for you.

 

Against a SARH you can also try to break the lock.

 

Against IR guided missiles there's usually 2 things you can do:

 

a) Flares

 

b) Low IR signature, or in other words, cut the throttle.

 

The interesting thing about IR missiles is that there's nothing to alert you of the launch, except for your eyes. Every IR missile in the game, except for some of the AIM-9s makes a lot of smoke so provided you know where to look you can find them.

 

Then we have the situational third way of dodging missiles - breaking line of sight (hiding behind a hill for instance), or guiding the missiles into the ground.

[jcbak]

Thank-you, Blaze. A great deal of information in a clear, concise and easy to understand format. It's much appreciated.

[TAW_Blaze]

I'm glad to help you guys. :)

[Serpent Reaver]

I'm back!

 

Blaze, I'd like to thank you so much for your help on here. Ever since I have learned from you, I have become a much better, more improved pilot in the F-15C. I am starting to become quite a competetive pilot in it, as I've managed to take on my foes with more ease. R-27ER is horrible to defeat, though I have been beating them with ease. I either defeat them by energy going straight up full speed, sideways to escape their intercept and spamming a bit of chaff every 4 seconds... Believe me, I have been a very lucky one against these, as I've even saw one whizz past my canopy - a true close call.

 

I am really pleased with your help, as many other new pilots would love to read what you've put down. This topic deserves a sticky, and Blaze deserves reps!

 

Thank you!

[BitMaster]

Excellent Blaze !

 

I am reading forums regarding Combat Flight Sims for 2 decades now and I have hardly ever come across this much condensed but still precisely described information on how to approach and look at BVR.

 

There are years of findings behind those maybe 1000 words, each word funded by I dont know how many flights Blaze has but the way he writes them makes me believe those words are very well funded by thousands of hours in the jockey seat.

 

Hats off Blaze, your essay was also exactly what I was looking for to shake my rust off and get back to A2A.

 

I really enjoy your 104th Server and felt the need to get back into A2A but I had specific questions that I knew were crucial to have the answers for before fighting makes sense, before you can gain further knowledge and learn.

 

I am getting too much off topic here...

 

Well done mate, a valuable source for newbies, rusty veterans and alike ;=)

 

 

Bit

Edited January 5, 2015 by BitMaster

[TAW_Blaze]

If you have more questions just shoot 'em :)

[Sciatis]

Hello, I am new myself and found these posts extremely helpful, thank you Blaze.

 

I have a question about PRF. I thought it is prefered to use HI PRF only for headon enemies and MED PRF only for trailon enemies.

 

Blaze, at the start of this thread you wrote that MED PRF should be used inside 25nm. Would I still be able to detect headon enemies like that? And would I be able to detect trailon enemies at 25nm+ on HI PRF setting?

 

I guess my question boils down to:

 

Does HI PRF detect trailon targets outside 25nm?

Does MED PRF detect headon targets within 25nm?

 

Thanks

Edited January 9, 2015 by Sciatis

[TAW_Blaze]

Does HI PRF detect trailon targets outside 25nm?

 

Nothing will detect targets that are past beam aspect further than 25nm. Of course I'm speaking of fighter aircraft.

 

Does MED PRF detect headon targets within 25nm?

 

Of course it does. If it didn't I wouldn't recommend people to use it. The point is that, inside 20nm if you stay in HPRF and the guy does any maneuvering you have a really good chance of losing him.

[Sciatis]

I didn't mean to doubt you, it's just that I've seen tutorial that says MED is for tailon only and HI is for headon only. And being new to the DCS, I'm sure you can understand contradicting info can be very confusing.

 

Thanks for clarification.

[knix15]

The point is that' date=' inside 20nm if you stay in HPRF and the guy does any maneuvering you have a really good chance of losing him.[/quote']

 

Oh man, thanks for this. It was one of my biggest mystery, why I lose so many targets tws-hi head on approach. And thanks for the other tips as well. I learnt a lot.

Have a nice day!

[TAW_Blaze]

I didn't mean to doubt you, it's just that I've seen tutorial that says MED is for tailon only and HI is for headon only. And being new to the DCS, I'm sure you can understand contradicting info can be very confusing.

 

Thanks for clarification.

 

I'd be very careful with any tutorials. The vast majority of them are just bad.

 

Oh man, thanks for this. It was one of my biggest mystery, why I lose so many targets tws-hi head on approach. And thanks for the other tips as well. I learnt a lot.

Have a nice day!

 

You're welcome. Have a nice day too!

[GGTharos]

No, HPRF is best and gives you longest range for high-aspect targets, MRPF is best and gives you longest range for tail-aspect targets.

 

But you can still use HPRF/MPRF with the 'wrong aspect', as long as the bandit is close enough.

 

MPRF also tends to be much better for clutter rejection, but that part is not modeled.

 

I didn't mean to doubt you, it's just that I've seen tutorial that says MED is for tailon only and HI is for headon only. And being new to the DCS, I'm sure you can understand contradicting info can be very confusing.

 

Thanks for clarification.

[Ktulu2]

 

MPRF also tends to be much better for clutter rejection, but that part is not modeled.

 

Good to know, clutter rejection was my main criteria for PRFs, I guess I read a bad tuto.