Hard to fly - Is it me?

[wildcolonialboy]

I'm flying around in my Su-25 in, say, a training mission. I've been flying along rather pleasantly on a fairly constant altitude and heading, plinking a few tanks. So I've passed my targets and I start coming around, and suddenly my aircraft is very difficult to control.

 

It keeps trying to pitch over, rolling without me doing anything, and the autopilot doesn't really seem to help very much at all if I set constant altitude or roll hold.

 

Do you have any tips or suggestions? I am using a keyboard atm, I do intend to buy a flight stick shortly

[nickexists]

Is the autopilot off when you are trying to turn?

[wildcolonialboy]

Is the autopilot off when you are trying to turn?

 

Yes, the autopilot is off while all these issues are initially happening. My aircraft starts to roll without being told, and so on.

 

It's only when it starts to get difficult I try to turn on the autopilot to stabilise the aircraft, and it sometimes makes it worse.

 

I'm not sure if it's wind, or something? Turbulence? I don't know

[Devrim]

If you could provide a track, it would be very easy to see the problem friend.

[Abburo]

I suppose that you are talking about SU-25T, because SU-25A does not have an autopilot.

 

I suspect that your problems comes from autopilot. SU-25T requires manual trim to get back to neutral flight behaviour when the autopilot is disabled.

 

One more thing, maybe you have to check the controls to not have set multiple joystick devices to the same airplane command (pitch, roll. etc)

[msalama]

I don't know

 

Check your controller setup. Double bindings can cause all kinds of weirdness.

[esb77]

You can fly with the keyboard, but it's definitely a bit trickier than it is with a good stick.

 

Aside from input hardware considerations and odd/multiple bindings (in particular if you're getting keyboard input that conflicts with things bound to mouse, laptop mousepad, or numberpad, etc) the Su-25 variants are very well behaved if you stay within their limits.

 

Make really sure the plane is trimmed in level flight before turning the autopilot off. It can fight you pretty hard if it's trying to counter pilot input.

 

Other things are make gradual smooth control inputs, and try to stay at 15 deg AoA or less as a new pilot. Loss of control occurs around 20 deg AoA.

 

Also try not to drop below about 350 km/h IAS, 400 is even better. The plane gets a bit less forgiving at the low end of its speed range. Flaps in maneuvering position are a good idea if you're below 450 km/h and want better control.

 

It's very unlikely to be wind or turbulence.

 

One question, are these training missions where you've dropped heavy ordnance from one wing, but not from the other? Unbalanced loading can get you a bank of anywhere from about 0 to 60 degrees, depending on which pylons are loaded in an unbalanced configuration.

 

Pretty easy to correct for with a stick, but I could see it being pretty crazy with keyboard controls.

 

If it is unbalanced ordnance the wings level/emergency autopilot can get you trimmed out if you maintain reasonable speed and fly straight after weapons release. Turn it off as soon as you're stable and then you should be able to maneuver more easily (you'll have to re-trim if you drop the rest of your load on subsequent passes).

[wildcolonialboy]

You can fly with the keyboard, but it's definitely a bit trickier than it is with a good stick.

 

Aside from input hardware considerations and odd/multiple bindings (in particular if you're getting keyboard input that conflicts with things bound to mouse, laptop mousepad, or numberpad, etc) the Su-25 variants are very well behaved if you stay within their limits.

 

Make really sure the plane is trimmed in level flight before turning the autopilot off. It can fight you pretty hard if it's trying to counter pilot input.

 

Other things are make gradual smooth control inputs, and try to stay at 15 deg AoA or less as a new pilot. Loss of control occurs around 20 deg AoA.

 

Also try not to drop below about 350 km/h IAS, 400 is even better. The plane gets a bit less forgiving at the low end of its speed range. Flaps in maneuvering position are a good idea if you're below 450 km/h and want better control.

 

It's very unlikely to be wind or turbulence.

 

One question, are these training missions where you've dropped heavy ordnance from one wing, but not from the other? Unbalanced loading can get you a bank of anywhere from about 0 to 60 degrees, depending on which pylons are loaded in an unbalanced configuration.

 

Pretty easy to correct for with a stick, but I could see it being pretty crazy with keyboard controls.

 

If it is unbalanced ordnance the wings level/emergency autopilot can get you trimmed out if you maintain reasonable speed and fly straight after weapons release. Turn it off as soon as you're stable and then you should be able to maneuver more easily (you'll have to re-trim if you drop the rest of your load on subsequent passes).

 

Wow, thanks for all the tips, I really appreciate it. I did pick up the issue of unbalanced ordnance, when I fire off a Kh-29 it really gives the plane a jolt and rolls me in the opposite direction. I think you're right about wind and turbulence too; I've noticed similar issues when I'm flying a Flanker, though much more easy to control and compensate for

 

I have made sure there aren't double bindings for flight control keys, but sometimes the aircraft just loses control. I will bite the bullet and buy a flight-stick, I just spent 2,000 GBP on getting a computer that could do flight sims well and it's only being busy and lazy that has prevented me from going out to buy the stick to match

 

Do you have any suggestions for a good flight stick?

Edited January 12, 2015 by wildcolonialboy

[BFBunny]

Ideally anything with a separate rudder or combined rudder and throttle (hortas). You'll probably have to tune the axis curves (under controls) to make the planes feel the way you want. More / less twitchy.

 

I think you can fly the free tf51 mustang without a stick, although landing is a little trickier. I've not tried the 109 with k/b, but I'd imagine it being a handful.

 

The jets are more keyboard friendly (especially the flaming cliffs ones)

 

You could easily get by for now by spending as little as $40

 

I remember having a similar problem, but I can't remember what it was. Been having too much fun in the dora.

[wildcolonialboy]

Ideally anything with a separate rudder or combined rudder and throttle (hortas). You'll probably have to tune the axis curves (under controls) to make the planes feel the way you want. More / less twitchy.

 

I think you can fly the free tf51 mustang without a stick, although landing is a little trickier. I've not tried the 109 with k/b, but I'd imagine it being a handful.

 

The jets are more keyboard friendly (especially the flaming cliffs ones)

 

You could easily get by for now by spending as little as $40

 

I remember having a similar problem, but I can't remember what it was. Been having too much fun in the dora.

 

Are there any particular brands you'd suggest as being generally good quality? I'm completely ignorant of the Flight Stick market.

 

 

I've found this "Speedlink Black Widow", it seems to have the stick and "additional thrust level with side rudder control"

 

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/238883.htm#pdpFullProductInformation

 

Do you think that would meet the requirement?

[BFBunny]

The black widow is a little iffy from my tests. The spring is pretty stiff on the rudder. It's a fairly good starter stick and is certainly better than a twist grip. I had to fiddle with the axis curves a lot to get it to a point where I felt in control shooting especially in the prop planes.

 

For a little over £10 more the Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas X Joystick (PC/PS3) would be my value starter hortas stick. It's a bit smoother overall. The buttons are slightly better positioned on the throttle so breaking is easer to do with one hand.

 

If you have a £200 to spend then a Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino might be better for a long term investment as I would expect it to be smoother.