Weak Engine Power

[Ironhand]

You're right Flankerator, but you're talking about real life ACs I was talking about DCS.

I got used with the new flight dynamics especially the magical S key which disables the FBW system and I use it all the time to make fast turns @ very high speeds. I can do a chandelle in a couple of seconds (20Gs turns). I think this model is very UNREALISTIC inspite of everybody here on the forum says that they respected the manuals. Hmm.. anyone can test this:

-Speed around 1000km/h

-fly horizontally

-pull the stick a little (nose up) to prevent the nose going down and in the same time press the S key and start the chandelle. After the maneuvre is completed you'll climb ~500 m and lose ~500 km/h from the airspeed but THAT turn.. you'll make it so fast.

Based on what you're saying, it's the damage modeling that isn't right, not necessarily the flight model. Taking direct control of the aircraft allows you to do all sorts of things the airframe can't support. The problem right now seems to be that there's no penalty for doing it. Yevgeny Solovyov died because he accidentally severely over-G'd the aircraft during a test flight and his aircraft came apart in mid-air. No such thing is happening here.

 

EDIT: I suppose another (minor) issue is that all we have to do is fly with a finger poised over the "S" key. Ever take a look at where the switch is actually located? You're not doing to access it without first throttling back, looking down and finding it, and flipping the safety cover up.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Ironhand

[amazingme]

I saw the switch and i was wondering how in the world could a real pilot switch it on and off rapidly like I do :)

[GGTharos]

They couldn't, nor would it be likely to be used in combat. It's 'one of those things'.

[Ironhand]

They couldn't, nor would it be likely to be used in combat. It's 'one of those things'.

:) Knowing what it allows you to do to the airframe, I can't imagine anyone using it in combat. The high stress of battle, adrenaline flowing, high-G maneuvering, and no computer to protect you from over controlling with the stick. Suddenly you and your airplane are falling out of the sky in pieces.

[GGTharos]

Yep. It also gives you next to no advantages - it just makes the aircraft less docile, and there's really no need for it - it's already an aircraft with great performance, and if you need to go to direct control to fight, what you are isn't a cool, amazing pilot, but a desperate, about to get peeled grape.

[amazingme]

In reality it can't be used as I do in DCS but it feels like a cheat or something.. I mean it should tear the pilot apart when pulling >20Gs :)

[Ironhand]

In reality it can't be used as I do in DCS but it feels like a cheat or something.. I mean it should tear the pilot apart when pulling >20Gs :)

The highest recorded G loading that anyone has survived is, I believe, 46.2 G's. John Stapp in a rocket sled back in the 50s. That was a quick 5 second acceleration followed by a 1 second deceleration. But the direction of the forces was horizontal. You can withstand far more horizontal force than vertical. The time period for which either can be tolerated is, of course, another issue as well.

 

How well can the airframe hold up? I don't know but I imagine there's a reason the Su-27 is limited to 8 Gs with a full fuel load and normally a maximum of 9 Gs. After that, the people who maintain your aircraft start wondering what linkages have been weakened, bent, or broken. :) Assuming you didn't pull so many Gs that the wings fall off before you make it back.

[GGTharos]

I recall an F-15A experienced 14-15g's during an exercise. The pilot became disoriented, suddenly realized he was about to pass 10000' heading straight into the sea at over 600kts, pulled to the horizon with all his might.

 

The airframe was warped, so it could no longer be maintained. It is now a museum piece :)

[TAW_Blaze]

The highest recorded G loading that anyone has survived is, I believe, 46.2 G's. John Stapp in a rocket sled back in the 50s. That was a quick 5 second acceleration followed by a 1 second deceleration. But the direction of the forces was horizontal. You can withstand far more horizontal force than vertical. The time period for which either can be tolerated is, of course, another issue as well.

 

How well can the airframe hold up? I don't know but I imagine there's a reason the Su-27 is limited to 8 Gs with a full fuel load and normally a maximum of 9 Gs. After that, the people who maintain your aircraft start wondering what linkages have been weakened, bent, or broken. :) Assuming you didn't pull so many Gs that the wings fall off before you make it back.

 

I recall some car crashes being 200G and the driver survived. Some permanent injuries, but survived.

[Nedum]

You can withstand far more horizontal force than vertical. The time period for which either can be tolerated is, of course, another issue as well.

 

 

That is wrong!

The original telling was "a Pilot can withstand more horizontal forces without blacking out as vertical forces." And years later there is only left what you have said but this is wrong!

 

At a car crash the more deadly crashes are about from the side.

You break your neck very easy if you hit a human hard from the side.

The human skeleton is made for vertical forces not to withstand horizontal forces.

To break a humans neck the hangman knot must be on the side, because the neck wouldn't break if the hangman knot were on the back. You need 10 times more forces to break a neck if the knot is at the back of the neck.

[Ironhand]

I recall an F-15A experienced 14-15g's during an exercise. The pilot became disoriented, suddenly realized he was about to pass 10000' heading straight into the sea at over 600kts, pulled to the horizon with all his might.

 

The airframe was warped, so it could no longer be maintained. It is now a museum piece :)

Well..I guess that suggests what 14-15 sustained Gs can do to an airframe.

 

I recall some car crashes being 200G and the driver survived. Some permanent injuries' date=' but survived.[/quote']

That's pretty impressive, if true. OTOH, an estimated 80 Gs was enough to kill Princess Diana. So it all depends, I guess.

 

EDIT:

...You need 10 times more forces to break a neck if the knot is at the back of the neck.

:) You are just a fount of information. Do you stay up late at night reading up on this stuff? :) (Just pulling your leg in case the smilies aren't enough to let you know that I'm joking.)

 

And, yes, I stand corrected. "...before blacking out..."

Edited January 8, 2015 by Ironhand