Looking for newbie players to match in dogfighting

[lesnyborsuk]

Hi,

 

So...

For a while I am trying to get motivated to improve my dogfighting skills and try MP fights against humans.

 

I don't have bigger problems with handling P51, and I can do some aerobatics. I spend 99% of my MP time on Virtual Aerobatics Server.

 

What I suck at is dogfighting.

 

I am afraid, that when I join MP server, I will become a cannon fodder and completely loose my motivation.

 

I think it is always better to train with people of the same skill. I would like to contact any other people here, who are rookies in dogfighting, so we can arrange some multiplayer sessions and try to train together.

 

So, is anyone in?

 

Lukasz

[jkeiltaylor]

I'll join you. I'm not a rookie but I'm certainly no expert and I need to practice against humans. I fly the 109.

[=Mac=]

I fly the P-51. I know some aerobatics. But when it comes to dogfighting, I am very successful at running like hell. My only problem is, by the time it's too late to run, it's too late to run. :)

 

I fly weekends on the VA server. We can't shoot there, but we sure can dogfight. Well, fly towards each other, at least. After that...

 

I understand some of the basic tenets: the Merge, cornering speed, scissors, high yo-yo, low yo-yo, lead pursuit, and the all importance of a wingman.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

I'm in too :-)

 

Just tell me which server !

[fastfreddie]

I'd suggest the opposite if you are wanting to learn to dogfight or the best way to engage in combat and some of my best lessons came from getting by ass stomped. You're probably not going to learn near as much from new pilots to DCS as you would from the more seasoned players or ones that have come over from BOS/COD. Don't be afraid of getting shot down or crashing ... its part of the learning curve and there are plenty of experienced players to help you out. I created this mission for just the practice sessions that you are probably looking for and anyone with a decent internet connection should be able to host it.

 

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/1199463/

[FoReIgNeR]

I'm not a complete noob, but would also like to join. I have a 120MBit connection, so I could host =)

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

I'd suggest the opposite if you are wanting to learn to dogfight or the best way to engage in combat and some of my best lessons came from getting by ass stomped. You're probably not going to learn near as much from new pilots to DCS as you would from the more seasoned players or ones that have come over from BOS/COD. Don't be afraid of getting shot down or crashing ... its part of the learning curve and there are plenty of experienced players to help you out. I created this mission for just the practice sessions that you are probably looking for and anyone with a decent internet connection should be able to host it.

 

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/1199463/

 

Hi,

 

I had a great time this morning at your server! It was also a great opportunity to start learning a bit more about Air Combat tactics / techniques :-)

[Echo38]

I agree with Fastfreddie. As someone who once topped "leaderboards" in several different flight sim/games (years ago ... I'm rusty as heck now), I suggest using the method I used. First, a basic level of competence is needed before starting "advanced" training (because you won't learn much if you never know what hit you). This is accomplished by practicing offline until you are comfortable with takeoffs, landings, and shooting down an AI fighter.

 

Once you're at that point, the next step is to venture online and don't do what the majority of aerial combat simmers do, which is to look for easy targets (already engaged with someone else, already damaged, and/or at a much inferior beginning energy state, etc.) to backstab. This doesn't help learning much. One learns far more from difficult situations than from easy ones. The key is to, once you have the basics down, always take the most challenging fights you can find* (if you're winning more often than not, then you aren't properly challenging yourself). I myself favored duelling higher-skilled opponents, because this format allows the maximum rate of learning. Spend as little time flying around looking for combat as possible, and as much time actually in the dogfight as you can. An air-start duel mission and a ground-start mission with close (<5 miles apart) airfields and a no-"vulching" rule is ideal (each of the two is a bit better than the other at teaching different skillsets).

 

Examine your replays afterward whenever possible, especially if you aren't sure what you did wrong (and/or what your opponent did well). Watch them from various perspectives (first-person, third-person your airplane, third-person enemy airplane) to maximize your understanding of what happened in the fight.

 

Do these things with dedication and patience, and almost anyone can become a leaderboard-topping virtual top gun ace pilot. It may take a few years, as in my case, but I've known someone who managed to get there in little more than six months. The more hours you fly a day, the better your rate of learning; I consider two hours a day about the minimum for becoming & remaining competitive, although you can probably make do with an hour a day if you aren't interested in becoming "the best." Two hours a day is better than four hours every other day, because the skills you learn are so perishable that even short breaks result in a noticeable decay (especially at the higher levels of skill). As an example, when I was at my peak, I would virtually never accidentally stall & spin in a dogfight, but if I took a few days off, upon returning I would suffer from accidental stalls for my first ~hour or so back in.

 

In the end, how well you do -- how good you become at virtual dogfighting -- is largely determined by how much you care -- how much you value this activity & how intent you are on becoming proficient. There are methods & tips that can help you accelerate your learning, but (as you surely already know from getting this far) there's nothing that can replace hard work and pushing yourself as hard as you can. (Although having the proper simming equipment is also required; the best craftsman can't do much with broken tools.)

 

* This doesn't mean always picking fights where you're outnumbered and/or have a grossly inferior airplane (etc.) than your opponent's, by the way. A co-E 1-vs.-3 isn't what I call "a challenge," because it's an unwinnable situation (assuming competent enemies in good fighters), from which little is to be learned other than the basic, obvious fact that one man can't beat three without some kind of massive advantage. A proper challenge is one where the conditions are as near to equal as possible except for skill, in which your opponent's is greater than yours. This is the most effective way to learn.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Echo38

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Excellent advice Echo38.

 

Unfortunately my main problem with DCS is still being able to find the other aircraft around me... I'm lost 90% of the time, unless the Server allows for F5 or FOW or icons, or all of these :-)

 

Maneuvering the aircraft, landing and taking off on any of it, was never my problem, but I do have to get experience in ACM - reading that excellent "Lead Pursuit" book right now :-)

 

Also, while I really prefer to use the Bf109 K4 right now, I know it is far from being the most friendly in terms of visibility :-/ and wing resistance to higher Gs..

[lesnyborsuk]

I'd suggest the opposite if you are wanting to learn to dogfight or the best way to engage in combat and some of my best lessons came from getting by ass stomped.

 

I agree with Fastfreddie. As someone who once topped "leaderboards" in several different flight sim/games (years ago ... I'm rusty as heck now), I suggest using the method I used. First, a basic level of competence is needed before starting "advanced" training (because you won't learn much if you never know what hit you).

 

Thank you both for your thoughts.

But different people have different learning attitutes and different goals to achive. If my target would be to be the best of the best, I would take your way Echo38. However, anyone who tried dogfighting knows, that at the beginning it is a real pain in the... bottom. You need to be motivated and put quite a lot of effort to overcome this first phase.

 

I don't have too much time to spare, so my goal is to gather few people with the similar skill and have more fun quickly. Sure, we won't become aces very soon, but I think it will be less more frustrating :).

 

And fastfreddie - thanks for the link to your mission. I will try that tonight .

 

Excellent advice Echo38.

 

Unfortunately my main problem with DCS is still being able to find the other aircraft around me... I'm lost 90% of the time, unless the Server allows for F5 or FOW or icons, or all of these :-)

 

I feel the same.

Within the "novice" players group we can set up server as we wish.

 

OK, so we have 5 people including me - jkeiltaylor, =Mac=, jcomm, =FoReIgNeR=.

 

Today I feel sick after yesterday party, so maybe we can make first session tomorrow? Maybe 5:00 p.m. UTC ? I am flexible about time.

 

Do you have some idea how to stay in touch? Facebook? Skype?

 

Lukasz

[fastfreddie]

Hi,

 

I had a great time this morning at your server! It was also a great opportunity to start learning a bit more about Air Combat tactics / techniques :-)

 

I had a good time also and you'll be fine once you get some real practice in. I need the practice also ... been flying the Dora for so long which requires a different skill set than the Mustang that I've gotten rusty on some things.

 

I'd suggest that all players that want to get better at dogfighting look at this page for a basic explanation of combat maneuvers.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_fighter_maneuvers

 

Particularly hi yo-yo, flat/rolling scissors, barrel roll, and the Immelmann but all the info in the article will give a good basic understanding of combat maneuvers. It will also put a name on some of the things that you see online so you can read on how to counter them if you like. As you gain experience all these terms will fall into place and you will figure out that certain planes do certain things better than others. Situation awareness is probably as important as having good gunnery skills.

 

Echo brought up a good point about recording your play. Look for things you can improve on and mistakes to be corrected. When you see someone that does a maneuver and you say how'd the f*** did that happen ... you can look back to figure it out.

[Cpt.Rookie]

For the post-flight analysis, I would definitely recommend TacView utility (http://lomac.strasoftware.com/tacview-en.php). It gives you enormous amount of information to study, especially in cases you're wondering, how the hell did that guy managed to get on my six when I was starting in higher altitude, with bigger speed and behind him.

 

It works just nice on currently most populated server - Dogs of War (http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=133245)

[lesnyborsuk]

I'd suggest that all players that want to get better at dogfighting look at this page for a basic explanation of combat maneuvers.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_fighter_maneuvers

 

Thanks!

I've read it through, it is great for start.

Yesterday was my first time on DoW server and I think I saw you... on the dark side ;).

Today I played few hours on DoW and it was so much fun! I think I got addicted to this adrenaline rush while sneaking low and fast within the hills, to attack on red airport!

 

For the post-flight analysis, I would definitely recommend TacView utility (http://lomac.strasoftware.com/tacview-en.php). It gives you enormous amount of information to study, especially in cases you're wondering, how the hell did that guy managed to get on my six when I was starting in higher altitude, with bigger speed and behind him.

 

It works just nice on currently most populated server - Dogs of War (http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=133245)

 

It looks very good. I will use that.

 

 

 

I need to leave home for 2-3 hours, so someone else can start server and I will join in later around 6 p.m. UTC. Please name it "Novice dogfight training" or smth like that.

 

See ya!

[mazaw19]

count me in guys. I have lots of experience in the dog fighting world, I lack Technic.. but when it comes to dog fighting its something I took away from playing WWII fighters, IL-2's Pacific Fighters, and cliff of dovers... but I still need lots of practice learning the weapons management systems in various air craft.

[Whiplash]

I'd suggest the opposite if you are wanting to learn to dogfight or the best way to engage in combat and some of my best lessons came from getting by ass stomped. You're probably not going to learn near as much from new pilots to DCS as you would from the more seasoned players or ones that have come over from BOS/COD. Don't be afraid of getting shot down or crashing ... its part of the learning curve and there are plenty of experienced players to help you out. I created this mission for just the practice sessions that you are probably looking for and anyone with a decent internet connection should be able to host it.

 

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/1199463/

 

Hey freddie, is that mission something you would consider entering for our Mission Monday? I'm at work so I can't look at it but it sounds like it could be a good one. Here is the link if you want to check it out:

 

http://webfortress.com/dogsofwar/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=307&p=1779&sid=d0aff4a6a32678683dc99911de59107f#p1779

[luckyfortune]

Count me in as well, I'll keep an eye out for you guys.

[Crumpp]

Unfortunately my main problem with DCS is still being able to find the other aircraft around me... I'm lost 90% of the time, unless the Server allows for F5 or FOW or icons, or all of these :-)

 

Yeah, that slows down the learning ACM when you cannot find other A/C to fight.

 

Lukasz

 

I will join you in the Dora.

[fastfreddie]

Hey Whiplash, I didn't see your post but that mission wouldn't be useful in a 32 player environment. It is more of a 1v1, 2v2 mission but you could expand the concept to 32 players using one standard height or set it up with different altitudes in different missions while spreading the enemy units further out (3 miles or so). I've got the Dora/K4 ground attack mission about finished and it needs testing if you guys want that one. I should have time to set up a bigger version in the next week if you'd like.

[Crumpp]

When are you guys meeting up?

[luckyfortune]

I'm interested! Do you have a time set for next one?