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Sustained turn rate


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Hi,

 

I was flying around today to get myself more used to the DCS 109. I was quite surprised when i was trying its sustained turn capabilities.

 

Acc. to charts the 109 best sustained turn rate should be around 270km/h. Well I am totally unable to hold a sustained turn at this speed, or anything under 300-320km/h even there it is very much on the stall edge. If I try to come below this speed the airframe starts to buffet and enter into a spin or if I loosen the turn the airspeed will increase. Ball is in the middle, stable horizont.

 

Can you confirm it?

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Hi,

 

I was flying around today to get myself more used to the DCS 109. I was quite surprised when i was trying its sustained turn capabilities.

 

Acc. to charts the 109 best sustained turn rate should be around 270km/h. Well I am totally unable to hold a sustained turn at this speed, or anything under 300-320km/h even there it is very much on the stall edge. If I try to come below this speed the airframe starts to buffet and enter into a spin or if I loosen the turn the airspeed will increase. Ball is in the middle, stable horizont.

 

Can you confirm it?

 

Which 109 are u refering to? Remember that k4 is heavier.

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My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS.

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Hi,

 

I was flying around today to get myself more used to the DCS 109. I was quite surprised when i was trying its sustained turn capabilities.

 

Acc. to charts the 109 best sustained turn rate should be around 270km/h. Well I am totally unable to hold a sustained turn at this speed, or anything under 300-320km/h even there it is very much on the stall edge. If I try to come below this speed the airframe starts to buffet and enter into a spin or if I loosen the turn the airspeed will increase. Ball is in the middle, stable horizont.

 

Can you confirm it?

 

I also noticed the same thing.I use 7 seconds of combat flaps.Seems to work best .Lowering the flaps more seems to be doing more harm than good.But still can't turn at slower speed than 320 km/h.:D

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  • ED Team
Hi,

 

I was flying around today to get myself more used to the DCS 109. I was quite surprised when i was trying its sustained turn capabilities.

 

Acc. to charts the 109 best sustained turn rate should be around 270km/h. Well I am totally unable to hold a sustained turn at this speed, or anything under 300-320km/h even there it is very much on the stall edge. If I try to come below this speed the airframe starts to buffet and enter into a spin or if I loosen the turn the airspeed will increase. Ball is in the middle, stable horizont.

 

Can you confirm it?

 

270kph for 3200 kg, 16 sq. m and 1800 hp - it's obviously ridiculous number. I guess you use F or even E charts.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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So.... what is the speed for the best sustained turn rate for the K4?

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Yepp the charts I saw was about E model indeed. What is the best sustained turn rate speedfor the K then?

 

The on you don't feel it in the edge, in DCS...

 

I believe 320 km/h is for me the best figure, with around 5'' of deflecting flaps.

 

And, btw, being heavier, I really don't think the K4 should feel so light / loose on ground while taxiing.

Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...

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270kph for 3200 kg, 16 sq. m and 1800 hp - it's obviously ridiculous number. I guess you use F or even E charts.

I'm interested to see where did this 3200kg figure come from, the lowest weight figure I've seen for the K4 is 3362kg, Kurfurst's site was 3400kg during test.

This is from Kurfurst' site:

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109K_PBLeistungen/Leist_109K_EN.html

Condition of the aircraft :

8-109 K4 G = 3400 kg

Retractable tailwheel. streamlined MG 131 bulges, wheel well covers,



streamlined mainwheel bulges, for tire 660 x 190; without antenna

mast, with FuG 25 aerial, FuG 16ZY aerial, D.F. loop, MW 50 system,

without wing weapons.


Edited by GrapeJam
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  • ED Team
I'm interested to see where did this 3200kg figure come from, the lowest weight figure I've seen for the K4 is 3362kg, Kurfurst's site was 3400kg during test.

This is from Kurfurst' site:

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109K_PBLeistungen/Leist_109K_EN.html

 

I do not think you are turning with full tank and extremely aft CG... anyway, +- 100, even 200 kg never transform 320-350 kph to 270.

 

The best sustained turn can be found as you start from 400-420 kph coordinated turn pulling to the edge just before stall. As you keep the stick at this point he plane will begin to decelerate till you find that somewhere between 300 and 400 it stops to decelerate. The turn must be strictly in horisontal plane.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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No I wasn't really talking about sustained turn speed, I'm just interested in where this 3200 kg figure came from. Since the common weight figure of the K4 is 3350kg-3400kg.

 

And the K4's overclimbing at 31m/s and the 200kg missing weight maybe one of the reasons that contribute to it's overperformance.


Edited by GrapeJam
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I'm interested to see where did this 3200kg figure come from, the lowest weight figure I've seen for the K4 is 3362kg, Kurfurst's site was 3400kg during test.

This is from Kurfurst' site:

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109K_PBLeistungen/Leist_109K_EN.html

 

According to the GLC sheets (which gave proper weight breakdown) the fully equipped, loaded and fueled (incl. MW) weight was 3362 kg. The 3400 kg figure is I believe rounding up.

http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site

 

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The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945.

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