Damage Model a bit too tough

[BSS_Vidar]

Anyone notice the amount of hits the K-4 can withstand? It takes too much of a pounding before a wing or the whole arse-end falls off. My aim is pretty good, and I can see hits being scored. I can take down two 109's in one load of 50's per sortie on average.

 

V

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

i find just like with the two other warbirds, sometimes it takes ages, and sometimes a short burst is enough.

[Isegrim]

This is KA- 50 Bugs and Problems thread here.

[BSS_Vidar]

I have no issues whatsoever with the FW's DM. However, the 109 seems way too resilient. The water tanks for the rads seem to spew water forever. A few good .50 hits should bleed those Rads dry in about 3-4 min thereafter seizing the engine. The 109's 'Achilles Heel'... Are the Rad water volumes modeled properly?

 

The other issue I've been disappointed with is it vertical climb capabilities. They seem quite exuberant. I feel like I'm fighting against a light jet.

 

Speed is excessive as well. After a 180 degree flat pass at 310mph, I decided to use my speed and slightly pitch over to gain almost 400mph indicated to extend and head for home. The K4 merely pulled a hi-g 180 deg turn and closed effortlessly on my Pony at full gallop with a nifty head start thereby catching me with excess of a 20-30 mph closure rate.

 

Lots of folks enjoying this on-line. Hope they trim the fat off these issues in the final version.

 

V

Edited September 12, 2015 by BSS_Vidar

[Solty]

I have no issues whatsoever with the FW's DM. However, the 109 seems way too resilient. The water tanks for the rads seem to spew water forever. A few good .50 hits should bleed those Rads dry in about 3-4 min thereafter seizing the engine. The 109's 'Achilles Heel'... Are the Rad water volumes modeled properly?

 

The other issue I've been disappointed with is it vertical climb capabilities. They seem quite exuberant. I feel like I'm fighting against a light jet.

 

Speed is excessive as well. After a 180 degree flat pass at 310mph, I decided to use my speed and slightly pitch over to gain almost 400mph indicated to extend and head for home. The K4 merely pulled a hi-g 180 deg turn and closed effortlessly on my Pony at full gallop with a nifty head start thereby catching me with excess of a 20-30 mph closure rate.

 

Lots of folks enjoying this on-line. Hope they trim the fat off these issues in the final version.

 

V

We have been told that the 109 is going to get patched with 1.5 and Climb Rate currently is 31m/s(at SL) and will be changed to 26m/s(at SL) and it doesn't have rudder forces giving it roll rate equal to FW190, which is also going to be fixed.

 

I agree with you that the 109 is too resistant. And I am not talking only about AI. You see AI has different DM and it doesn't suffer from coolant, oil loss etc. It is only beat by ripping its wing off and/or making it burn like a candle.

 

But, 109 seems to be realy resistant compared to other two planes. From what I've seen. I have never killed a 109 pilot in the cockpit. It is impossible to me. Also, they take a lot of pounding on different control surfaces and fuel tank and nothing happens. Only the engine wants to die sometimes if you hit it into radiators or just prop govenor dies.

 

It is realy wierd as the most sturdy and armoured Fw190D takes a beating pretty well, but still is way easier to shoot down than Bf109K4... If we look at the construction of both we would see that Fw190 was theoretically capable of taking more damage into its wings, but both planes should be burning if a well placed API hits the fuel tank and its gases... but I haven't seen fuel tanks burning on P-51 either, so I guess the DM doesn't have it modeled at all.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

About toughness, Cal .50 are a exceptional weapon but still you can't look for a Cannon bullet damage. Yourself said, sometimes it's one burst, just depends on the luck where you hit.

 

 

Speed is excessive as well. After a 180 degree flat pass at 310mph, I decided to use my speed and slightly pitch over to gain almost 400mph indicated to extend and head for home. The K4 merely pulled a hi-g 180 deg turn and closed effortlessly on my Pony at full gallop with a nifty head start thereby catching me with excess of a 20-30 mph closure rate.

Just a tip, even after 1.5 expected fixes, that's a bad idea. You can't outrun a 109 just slightly diving, even had we an earlier version that we haven't. 109 just accelerate faster than any P-51, even more a K4. So diving strategy isn't any good, if you dive slightly a 109 will always outrun and catch you, P-51 only has a certain advantage in a deep high speed dive (so high altitudes combat), watching not to break your airplane of course... Remember, 109 hadn't a dive advantage when P-51 and P-47 appeared, because their diving performances they couldn't escape diving any more. But the opposite is also true, you can't outrun a 109 just slightly diving you have to go hard, but after recovery 109 will always catch you in the long run if she keeps with you. That will be the same even after 1.5 fixes, and should be.

 

S!

[Solty]

No, 109 doesn't dive faster IRL than a P-51 but yes you need to commit against K4 to gain separation. Both P-51D and Fw190D should outdive the 109 easily, even the K4. 109 picks up speed ok up to 500kph(probably K4 can accelerate better than G6/G14 due to improved aerodymics), but P-51 can accelerate way faster after that mark. Earlier 109(G14) would be slower than P-51D even with the current 67'hg even in a level flight, not to mention dive. But P-51D is underperforming in lvl flight and that was acknowlaged by YoYo himself.

 

K4 though is faster than P-51D with current power setting and fuel and thats why I am still waiting for 44-1 fuel :D (from what I know, it should be added along the way :3) It should give the P-51 those 5mph more of speed than K4 at most altitudes.

 

About weapons... I feel that the game has DM based on HP of those different parts, and 109 wings feel way tougher than Fw190 for some reason. Also 6x.50cals is a good aramment and you can see how fast they can deal with fighter aircraft. Sure it depends on how you hit, but fuel tanks in DCS just don't burn and 109 wings seem to be more tough than 190 or P-51 (I judge that after many many kills and most of them against 109 were by killing its engine in MP and making them burn in SP)

Edited September 12, 2015 by Solty

[Ala13_ManOWar]

No, 109 doesn't dive faster IRL than a P-51 but yes you need to commit against K4 to gain separation. Both P-51D and Fw190D should outdive the 109 easily, even the K4. 109 picks up speed ok up to 500kph(probably K4 can accelerate better than G6/G14 due to improved aerodymics), but P-51 can accelerate way faster after that mark. Earlier 109(G14) would be slower than P-51D even with the current 67'hg even in a level flight, not to mention dive. But P-51D is underperforming in lvl flight and that was acknowlaged by YoYo himself.

So, what I said? :lol:

 

 

About fuel tanks burning I don't know if it's or it isn't a DCS feature, you're right I haven't see it ingame, never. But, should autosellable tanks catch fire? :huh: I think I've seen only external fuel tanks catching fire (guncams I mean), and Japanese aircraft of course... Not many German ones.

 

 

Thinking out loud what you said about gunnery, did you realise you're saying bigger aircraft are weaker and the small one harder? May be target size counts in the ammunition amount you're able to put in them?

 

S!

[Solty]

So, what I said? :lol:

 

 

About fuel tanks burning I don't know if it's or it isn't a DCS feature, you're right I haven't see it ingame, never. But, should autosellable tanks catch fire? :huh: I think I've seen only external fuel tanks catching fire (guncams I mean), and Japanese aircraft of course... Not many German ones.

 

 

Thinking out loud what you said about gunnery, did you realise you're saying bigger aircraft are weaker and the small one harder? May be target size counts in the ammunition amount you're able to put in them?

 

S!

Well, you said that even older 109 could catch the Mustang... which is not realy true, or maybe I misread that. Anyway...

 

Yes, self-sealing helps prevent fire, but when they (fuel fumes) catch fire then there is no stoping it except for some extrodinary luck. But there are many videos of 109s and 190s burning, with fire coming from those tanks, not so many guncams from axis side, but I am sure that they had simillar results.

 

For example here: https://youtu.be/MCiHa0h-6Rs?t=25m40s we have Fw190A that got hit into its feuselage tank, and whole feuselage seems to be on fire. https://youtu.be/MCiHa0h-6Rs?t=21m23s here from the same video you have a Bf109 hit into feuselage and engine on fire.

And this one is the best one yet, its from a British video, a direct hit into the fueslage tank of a German plane (its small so I presume 109) results in big bang :3

 

I mean I saw more from IRL, but in DCS I have never seen a single fuel tank on fire.

 

I realise what I say, and I am sure of what I've said. I have killed many 190s with a quick attack and burst that made a 190's wing fly off, or kill the pilot. While I can only rip off 109's wings via methodical sustained long bursts and I have never killed a 109's pilot.

 

Wing damage on 109 seems to go like this:

1. Bullet holes

2. White smoke and more holes

3. Black smoke

4. White smoke again

5. Wing destroyed

Edited September 12, 2015 by Solty

[Neuman]

Mustang DM are the same.

 

Recently in my practice there was a case: bot Mustang can take more than 40 hits of 20 mm shells from which a large part was HEI and mgschs + many hits from 13 mm machine gun. And he stayed in the air. And just a random machine-gun fire could kill the pilot.

 

The MiG-15 can ignore the hit 40-50 and even 70 12.7 mm bullets. F-86, may continue the flight after 2 hits with 37 mm.

[arglmauf]

Well, you said that even older 109 could catch the Mustang... which is not realy true, or maybe I misread that. Anyway...

 

Yes, self-sealing helps prevent fire, but when they (fuel fumes) catch fire then there is no stoping it except for some extrodinary luck. But there are many videos of 109s and 190s burning, with fire coming from those tanks, not so many guncams from axis side, but I am sure that they had simillar results.

 

For example here: https://youtu.be/MCiHa0h-6Rs?t=25m40s we have Fw190A that got hit into its feuselage tank, and whole feuselage seems to be on fire. https://youtu.be/MCiHa0h-6Rs?t=21m23s here from the same video you have a Bf109 hit into feuselage and engine on fire.

And this one is the best one yet, its from a British video, a direct hit into the fueslage tank of a German plane (its small so I presume 109) results in big bang :3

 

I mean I saw more from IRL, but in DCS I have never seen a single fuel tank on fire.

 

I realise what I say, and I am sure of what I've said. I have killed many 190s with a quick attack and burst that made a 190's wing fly off, or kill the pilot. While I can only rip off 109's wings via methodical sustained long bursts and I have never killed a 109's pilot.

 

Wing damage on 109 seems to go like this:

1. Bullet holes

2. White smoke and more holes

3. Black smoke

4. White smoke again

5. Wing destroyed

 

I've seen fueltank fires on 190s and 109s in DCS though they are pretty rare it seems. Usually you saw off a wing before that. Those fires happened when my target climbed aggressively and presented a nicely stable target at 1100 feet range with the upper side of the plane exposed. What I've never seen is a fuel tank exploding and ripping the plane apart though and the flame effect was always pretty meek compared to what the guncam videos show.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

OTOH, this morning I scored a few hits on an AI p51d with my K4, but he was still flying ahead of me when, all of a sudden, and some time after my last shooting ( more than 45 '' ), the p51d broke in half and turned into a ball of fire.... Apparently the accumulated damage eventually caused structural failure when the AI pilot tried a higher G maneuver to get me from his 6....