USAF gas bill

[Pilotasso]

Your interpreted the documeantry wrongly. St helens didnt polute "more than man has ever did". It did more in one go but it pales in comparisons in one years comulative man made polution.

And you dont get St helens every day. Mans polution in one year amounts to hundreds of st helens eruptions. I also saw a documentary about this and I remenber distintly that the increase anual CO2 production by man pales St helens eruption by comparison.

 

The bitter truth is that CO2 did increase to double in the last century and no one can blaim volcanoes for that because they have always existed long before internal combustion was arround.

 

We are going to suffer form climatic changes, and we are going to suffer even more with the bio-diversity reduced resulted from the habitats shrinking after we destroyed species and every habitat they could use to refuge for the incoming changes.

Global warming may have other factors other than man made greenhouse effect, but it doesnt get us rid of its implications anyway.

The ozone layer crysis may have been averted but it only means that we wont be radiated to death first before we are cooked or loose the biosphere.

 

BTW St helens is the most mediatic vulcanic eruptions recently but early in the 20th century the Karakatoa eruption was far worse.

[britgliderpilot]

. . . . . . does any of the above actually matter?

 

 

The place does seem to be warming up.

 

It is quite possibly going to continue warming up.

 

It probably isn't going to stop any time soon, even if we grounded every aircraft, stopped every car, and shut down every factory.

 

 

As such . . . . it doesn't matter whether the warming up is our fault or not, we're going to have to live with it.

 

Has this occurred to a politician yet? :P

[hitman]

The ONLY real damage mankind has done to this earth is dump radioactive waste into oceans and sink it in landfills, most of which is a man-made radio-isotope U-238 and Plutonium Pu-236 to Pu-246. The Alvarez event is what really messed up the climate and that was 65 million years ago. An event which the earth hasnt even fully recovered yet. And if you believe that its not plausible to be struck with an asteroid or meteor in our lifetime, I might remind you of the Tunguska event, which in 1908, a meteor (or anti-matter which is another theory) exploded in Siberia with the equivalent of 16mt of energy. If you think that exhaust is going to cause long term effects, all you have to do is look at its half-life.

 

Carbon Monoxide has a half-life of 80-minutes.

[44th Eagle]

I always find it funny how big and mighty men think they are. To think that 6.5 billion people can destroy the earth resources in 100-200 years is far fetched. If you take a city the size of Jacksonville Florida (758.7 sq miles) and extend its land area to a total of 3.25 times its original. If every single person on the face of the earth (6.5 billion) could stand in one of its 1ft x 1ft squares, it would contain the entire worlds population.

[jakethesnake630]

I always find it funny how big and mighty men think they are. To think that 6.5 billion people can destroy the earth resources in 100-200 years is far fetched. If you take a city the size of Jacksonville Florida (758.7 sq miles) and extend its land area to a total of 3.25 times its original. If every single person on the face of the earth (6.5 billion) could stand in one of its 1ft x 1ft squares, it would contain the entire worlds population.

 

Yes...and then you fit in every civilian aircraft, airliner, military jet/cargo plane,car,truck,motorbike,boat and chimney...takes up a lil more space.

[Weta43]

Think about the total mass of virus in an ebola victims body compared to the total mass of the host.

Or how many grams of modern nerve gas it takes to kill a human.

Or how much of the toxin excreted by an invisible amount of salmonella in your chicken sandwich you need to eat compared to your body weight before you start to retch your guts out.

 

We don't need to cover a significant portion of the earth with our bodies to destroy it if our activities (deforestation being a biggie) and our waste products push the system far enough out of ballance that when it reaches a new equilibrium, it's not a system that supports us any more

[44th Eagle]

I think everyone that is so concerned with the earth resources should walk the walk. Give up the plane trips, the cars, stop using those precious resources to heat your homes. Leave them for us non-environment whackos, who tend to be the optimists of the world. I put my faith in bigger things then men and their egos.

[Coffee999]

Your interpreted the documeantry wrongly. St helens didnt polute "more than man has ever did". It did more in one go but it pales in comparisons in one years comulative man made polution.

And you dont get St helens every day. Mans polution in one year amounts to hundreds of st helens eruptions. I also saw a documentary about this and I remenber distintly that the increase anual CO2 production by man pales St helens eruption by comparison.

 

The bitter truth is that CO2 did increase to double in the last century and no one can blaim volcanoes for that because they have always existed long before internal combustion was arround.

 

We are going to suffer form climatic changes, and we are going to suffer even more with the bio-diversity reduced resulted from the habitats shrinking after we destroyed species and every habitat they could use to refuge for the incoming changes.

Global warming may have other factors other than man made greenhouse effect, but it doesnt get us rid of its implications anyway.

The ozone layer crysis may have been averted but it only means that we wont be radiated to death first before we are cooked or loose the biosphere.

 

BTW St helens is the most mediatic vulcanic eruptions recently but early in the 20th century the Karakatoa eruption was far worse.

 

No actually I didn't interpet it wrong. Let me rephrase it. The show stated that Mount St. Helen put more pollutance and sulfer in the air in one eruption, than man has since our exsistance. That means all car exahust, factory's, everything combined. Just thought I would pass that along. I didn't misunderstand it.

[hitman]

Think about the total mass of virus in an ebola victims body compared to the total mass of the host.

Or how many grams of modern nerve gas it takes to kill a human.

Or how much of the toxin excreted by an invisible amount of salmonella in your chicken sandwich you need to eat compared to your body weight before you start to retch your guts out.

 

We don't need to cover a significant portion of the earth with our bodies to destroy it if our activities (deforestation being a biggie) and our waste products push the system far enough out of ballance that when it reaches a new equilibrium, it's not a system that supports us any more

 

This statement is not valid. Simply because humans are not a virus. Most gases that humans create are "naturally occuring" in nature itself. No one ever mentioned forest fires that pour thick belching smoke (and how we extinguish them), and if left uncheck, fires could easily spread across the world and cause widespread devestation. Quite simply-man CANNOT control or INFLUENCE the weather significantly enough to kill every living thing in the world (except for nuclear weapons detonation).

 

You want to know the truth? Truth is the planet itself produces more greenhouse gases than mankind does. Far be it from me to preach to the choir, but if you see your car dumping out the decay of a "naturally combustible element" then quit driving your car, dont fire your guns, put down that bus ticket, dont blow up any explosive compounds, certainly dont drink any beer or eat cabbage, and DONT make anything out of yeast.

 

Put it like this...the earth has been around for 4.5 trillion years, life has existed on this planet for 360 million years, natural radiation levels has mutated enough species to evolve into a natural species, and life has never ended during multiple celestial strikes or the last 10 ice ages. The ONLY thing that can destroy all life on earth as we know it would be a similar event which happened to Jupiter in '94.

 

If the government would let me, and if I could afford it, I would drive a 688 scraper to work every day.:thumbdown:

[SwingKid]

I think everyone that is so concerned with the earth resources should walk the walk. Give up the plane trips, the cars, stop using those precious resources to heat your homes. Leave them for us non-environment whackos, who tend to be the optimists of the world. I put my faith in bigger things then men and their egos.

 

I can't speak for "environment whackos," but I can confirm that there are a remarkable number of my fellow microwave and antenna engineers who, like myself, refuse to own a mobile phone. We still encourage the rest of you to buy them though, and continue paying our salaries. They're perfectly safe. Really! ;)

 

Speaking of which, have you upgraded your computer lately?

 

-SK

[leafer]

I'm going to simply continue to pursue life, liberty and happiness. My USAF is going to ensure that I keep those freedoms- and I am going to continue to love and respect each and every member of our armed services.

 

 

Good god! You have paper-thin skin! Leave this this discussion at once! This kind of topic is for human with skin thickness of 4mm and above.

[Weta43]

Look at any other organism on the planet that has had the kind of population explosion that humans have had. they boom till they degrade their environment / host till it no longer supports the huge population, then they run out of food / poison themselves with their excreta, bust & die back to a minimal level, then if any are left they start again.

We've been booming for a long time, & as far as I can see the only thing that could stop the bust coming is divine intervention. & I don't see a lot of that in the modern world.

[leafer]

I think everyone that is so concerned with the earth resources should walk the walk. Give up the plane trips, the cars, stop using those precious resources to heat your homes. Leave them for us non-environment whackos, who tend to be the optimists of the world. I put my faith in bigger things then men and their egos.

 

A lot of them are doing just that, and some, they don't just walk the walk; they run the fecking extra miles. As for giving up plane trips, cars and etc, I'm sure they will. Right after you invent something for them that is safe, quick and inexpensive to travel across the seas with. :D

[SwingKid]

On a related topic, a recent (this month's?) issue of Combat Aircraft (or was it AFM?) had an article about the US "sacrificing" half of its B-52 fleet and dozens of other aircraft, in order to fund just 4 more F-22s. I was surprised by the amount of negative political opinion expressed in the article. It seemed like the author was going way beyond objectively reporting about military aviation, and almost venting frustration about "the world today." I wonder how some of the more optimistic posters here would react to that, considering that even I found it out of place.

 

-SK

[44th Eagle]

I can't speak for "environment whackos," but I can confirm that there are a remarkable number of my fellow microwave and antenna engineers who, like myself, refuse to own a mobile phone. We still encourage the rest of you to buy them though, and continue paying our salaries. They're perfectly safe. Really! ;)

 

Speaking of which, have you upgraded your computer lately?

 

-SK

 

SwingKid is there any data on the subject? I would love to see that. :)

[SwingKid]

Good god! You have paper-thin skin! Leave this this discussion at once! This kind of topic is for human with skin thickness of 4mm and above.

 

"Thin-skinned?"

 

I thought his post was more...

:cheer3nc:

 

I've been waiting to see that smiley used, like, forever!

 

-SK

[SwingKid]

SwingKid is there any data on the subject? I would love to see that. :)

 

I can confirm that yes, there is significant, measurable radiation, and yes, it ends up in your head.

 

Whether it does any harm when it gets there is what the controversy is about, and is for a biologist or a doctor to tell you, that's not our specialty. The cell phone companies deny it, but having worked with them, we can also confirm that they neither know, nor want to know. Their strongest, truest and loudest argument is basically the same as StarForce when asked about ruining DVD-ROM players: "there is no data or evidence" - and they're quietly doing everything to keep it that way.

 

I wouldn't trust StarForce with the health of my brain.

 

-SK

[diveplane]

In a documentery I saw, it said that Mount St. Helen's eruption released more pollution than man has ever created. This is One erruption!

 

I personally don't think man has any effect at all to the enviorment.

 

 

lol

[diveplane]

The ONLY real damage mankind has done to this earth is dump radioactive waste into oceans and sink it in landfills, most of which is a man-made radio-isotope U-238 and Plutonium Pu-236 to Pu-246. The Alvarez event is what really messed up the climate and that was 65 million years ago. An event which the earth hasnt even fully recovered yet. And if you believe that its not plausible to be struck with an asteroid or meteor in our lifetime, I might remind you of the Tunguska event, which in 1908, a meteor (or anti-matter which is another theory) exploded in Siberia with the equivalent of 16mt of energy. If you think that exhaust is going to cause long term effects, all you have to do is look at its half-life.

 

Carbon Monoxide has a half-life of 80-minutes.

 

agree, as an example russia has no money to clean its mess up, raidoactive waters off the northern tip off russia ,where all her decommissioned subs lay wasting

away into the waters.....massive mess laying there ,area is said to be so

radioactive ...., also lets not forget chernobyl , its still a time bomb ready to go off again the radiation in the sarcophagus will take 70 thosand years to

fall to a safe level for humans....remember this is 1 power plant that

radiated the whole off europe, very intresting link is this

http://www.kiddofspeed.com/367img/image10.3.jpg

http://www.kiddofspeed.com/chapter1.html

[leafer]

"Thin-skinned?"

 

:cheer3nc:

 

I've been waiting to see that smiley used, like, forever!

 

-SK

 

Excellent! I'm glad my post allowed you the excuse to use that smiley. :D

[Pilotasso]

Lets not forget the "Save the rainforests" scam. Decaying vegetation emits enough CO2 to negate the effects of the live plants themselves making O2. Google that one too.

 

Saving the rainforests is a scam?! LOL thats rich!!

 

Try to live in a planet without forests with 6.5 Billion people continuosly expending oxygen and the planet will be dead. Where do you think oxygen comes from?

 

And its not a question of oxygen alone. The rainforests soil is actualy poor. After lumbering and farming it, the ground looses the litle fertility it had and soon you get erosion. In the space of a few generations you will get a desert.

The Loss of the rain forests will also impact the weather, and there will be less rain. The sahara desert used to be a lush rain forest. Would you like to live in there?

 

Another problem is bio diversity. You might think you can live without crocs and parrots but when you eleminate an animals eco systems that animal will die out if it doesnt find a new home. it wont a find a new home if we already placed cities where other forests would be. And that animal will die. When one dies so does another and another and another, from microscopic level right down to the bottom of the food chain. So what you kill 1000 miles away from your home will afect what youll be able to eat. When the base of our food chain collapses we will all die out unless we eat sinthetic snot.

 

It makes me sad to think we will loose out fauna like tigers rhinos, it will make this planet so much poorer and uninteresting.

[Pilotasso]

I always find it funny how big and mighty men think they are. To think that 6.5 billion people can destroy the earth resources in 100-200 years is far fetched. If you take a city the size of Jacksonville Florida (758.7 sq miles) and extend its land area to a total of 3.25 times its original. If every single person on the face of the earth (6.5 billion) could stand in one of its 1ft x 1ft squares, it would contain the entire worlds population.

 

The cod fish and the sardine sustenability are endagered. We have quotas for managing them. We are running out of fish, and you still think we cant exaust this planets resources?

 

Actualy studies show that we will die out much sooner than our resources get trully exausted.

On a note, just to show how flawed your view of the matter is, planet earth contains enough gold to cover its whole surface under a layer of 150 feet deep. But we will never be able to mine all that. Infact only a very small amount is in our reach unless we go for the planets core, and you know how difficult that is. We will stop producing a thing much sooner than that thing actualy runs out on this planet.

If all countries specialy India and china comsumed the same as the average american citizen we would need another planet earth to sustain them. Food production is reaching a limit and the population continues to grow. IF we continue to anihilate forests and species like this we wont be able to continue growing enough food. we cant think we will be able to grow weat on the back yard while the rest of the world has been paved for parking lots and if the global warming keeps ruining the species we grow wich arent used to the new climate we are going to have.

[hitman]

Saving the rainforests is a scam?! LOL thats rich!!

 

Try to live in a planet without forests with 6.5 Billion people continuosly expending oxygen and the planet will be dead. Where do you think oxygen comes from?

 

The vast majority of the worlds supply of oxygen comes from the oceans.

[Crusty]

The vast majority of the worlds supply of oxygen comes from the oceans.

 

 

Its a "theory" and not one that has not had a lot of research done to help prove it, but it fits certain groups agendas well, I think its gonna become another one of them "internet facts"

[SwingKid]

The whole planet did. Millions of years ago. Your point?

 

I think he means that if the dinosaur air force couldn't save them when it was happening then, we shouldn't expect USAF to save us from replacement now.

 

Are you guys (the non-"environment whacko" types) for real, or just putting on an act? The elimination of Atlantic cod that destroyed industry in maritime Canada has pretty much exterminated such opinions from my country... Reading this is like going to a museum and seeing real, live dinosaurs still walking the earth - people with these opinions still exist?? I thought you guys were just fairy tales, made up by environmentalists to scare the rest of us at bedtime. :)

 

"Mommy mommy, can I feed one?"

 

:prop:

 

-SK