MiG-21 FFB problem

[theGozr]

Some aircraft in DCS are using the FFB very well, like the 190, 109 Su-25's but the MiG-21 like the MiG-15's FFB are not doing well. The forces are constant at all speed and even a 0 and stall or edge.. similar as the never fixed F-86.. Are you guys aware of this problem? need help?

 

Using Microsoft FFB DCS:1.5.0.46175

 

Thank you greatly

[OnlyforDCS]

I think this is working as intended. The horizontal stabilizers are all moving tail-planes which can provide no real 'feedback' on the stick depending on the airflow. There is also no FBW system in the Mig21 to 'simulate' this feedback either.

[theGozr]

Well it's basic yes. But pressure forces increase with speed and G load, some do not have the feeling of the speed but they should have it on G load to some extent which in the sim it's none from take off to - or + strong G loads. something is not right very much like the F-86.. but i do not know much about it on a MiG-21. I can tell you about the stick on a MiG-15 which is the same case on DCS 1.5 no good forces

Edited October 26, 2015 by theGozr

[OnlyforDCS]

Well it's basic. Pressure increase with speed and G load, some do not have the feeling of the speed but they should have it on G load to some extent which in the sim it's none from take off to - or + strong G loads. something is not right very much like the F-86.. but i do not kno w much about it.. But I can tell you about the stick on a MiG-15 which is the same case on DCS 1.5

 

The F86 also has an all moving tailplane, which would explain why you also do not get the standard feedback that you would expect. The Mig15 has a standard tailplane which stiffens with increasing IAS, and buffets when approaching stall. Im not sure whether the forces should increase with increasing G load in the Mig21, I don't know whether they do in the real plane. (Perhaps someone could clarify this last point?)

Edited October 26, 2015 by OnlyforDCS

[theGozr]

Agreed not the standard feeling ofcourse but we should have some elements in the feel and right now it's like the same force applied all around. and It is not right by my expereince.

[theGozr]

Here a video from youtube i just found to explain. If you guys once hold a stick from an real flight aircraft ( no yok ) and can think and observe on this. I cannot find the words for it but this may work somehow.

since i cannot find a source from behind my pc atm ;)

 

You will understand my point and find DCS 1.5 forces not correct .. as simple as this but it's becoming annoying after a while. FFB is the only good way to fly a sim imo so this is becoming a huge problem .

 

-MiG-15 need a complete redesign on the FFB no even a doubt.

Edited October 26, 2015 by theGozr

[Dirty Rotten Flieger]

When I first tried Mig21 with my new MSFFB2 I was sure something was wrong and started a thread about it too.

I knew about all flying tails producing no dynamic stick forces with speed but thought maybe a spring stick would be a better approximation of real Mig21 and maybe the FFB stick should mimic a spring stick?

 

Then I read the english translation of the Mig21bis flight manual, which states that stick forces remain constant at all speeds. As already explained this is due to the all moving tail planes.

 

How ever I do feel the stick tighten with G forces . You say you don't?

 

I think the 1.5 beta was quite improved from the 1.2 FFB for Mig21. I get better feel with 1.5 than 1.2. Also the ARU is been loosened up and you can pull AOA till stall, or ride on edge of stall. Which is very nice. I get good feedback for this from Gforce.

 

I also am getting satisfactory feedback from the other models too.

 

Maybe your FFB needs to be adjusted ?

[theGozr]

I'll check back again by adding a little wind and turbulence something that ressemble at a real world effect.. because now thinking of it all the quick starts are very blank world.

Edited October 27, 2015 by theGozr

[TheSnark]

I've done some searching to see if the Mig-21 has a artificial feel system installed(like found on the F-5) all I have found so far is that only the aileron system has this. If so then that means that no, you would feel no change in the elevator pressure.

[OnlyforDCS]

All I can add to the discussion is this. Dolphin, the man behind the FM of this aircraft, is not only the lead programmer he was (is?) an active duty Mig21 pilot. Unless a bug is involved, I think it's safe to say the system is working as intended.

[theGozr]

I can see how they did it with the stick slower to push in the cockpit and I do not know what is the forces that need to be apply on the stick, this is what through me off, It can be tweak a tight more to give more sensitivity feel on a FFB.. all depend what are the real pressure specs.

 

Unlike the MiG-15 which I was used to.

All get into questions when feeling the MiG-15 and some things are missing that make it special vs the MiG-17 and others for example. So the dount is setting when feeling the MiG-21.. ( Well just because I am picky but in general they are not too bad ;) )

Edited October 27, 2015 by theGozr

[HugePanic]

"Have Donut" states (PDF page 24):

"High long. contr. forces. Abovr approx. 510KIAS, below 15000feet, the pilot eperiences high stabilator control forces and cannot command a high pitch rate"

 

At least some versions of the 21 were affected by this...