Radar version on current Flanker

[whitehot]

I was reading the manual and noticed that the system "currently installed" on our DCS Flanker is the first gen N001. From what I 've read and know, that complex is used only by export versions of the Flanker (China, Vietnam and so on), while the VVS has had the much improved N011 complex since the 90ies.

 

Being the FCR among the more vital components in a modern fighter , that would mean that our SU-27 is basically an aircraft from the early 80ies..

 

There are several discussions on these forums about the superiority of the APG-63 in the F-15C, and myself was thinking that the rl Flanker really is at a big disadvantage in that field..

 

I don't suppose we 'll ever see DCS Flankers reequipped with some more current avionics.. but wouldn't that be all good for this simulator?

[Nedum]

The Su27/P and S (we can fly in this game) has only the N001 RADAR.

 

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Flanker-Radars.html

[Dudikoff]

They did at one point mention they're doing an Su-27SM, but have since retracted that, probably due to very restrictive laws, so I'd expect chances are slim to none currently for some newer Flanker variant to be modeled.

[Alfa]

I was reading the manual and noticed that the system "currently installed" on our DCS Flanker is the first gen N001. From what I 've read and know, that complex is used only by export versions of the Flanker (China, Vietnam and so on), while the VVS has had the much improved N011 complex since the 90ies.

 

The Russian Su-27S is still using the N001 just like the export version(Su-27SK). The recently upgraded Russian version(Su-27SM) is using an upgraded version of the N001 called N001VE with added Air-to-ground modes and compatibility with the RVV-AE.

 

The N011 was a newer slotted array design for the Su-27M(Su-35) prototypes developed in the late eighties, but these didn't enter service due to the collapse of the Soviet Union. The N011 first formed the basis for the N011M "Bars" radar(currently operational with the Indian Su-30MKI) which had the slotted array antenna replaced by a PESA antenna - the "Bars" in turn formed the basis of the new Irbis-E PESA radar installed in the Su-35S(new version in service with the Russian airforce).

 

Being the FCR among the more vital components in a modern fighter , that would mean that our SU-27 is basically an aircraft from the early 80ies..

 

Yes the Su-27S in the game is the initial version from ~ 1984.

 

There are several discussions on these forums about the superiority of the APG-63 in the F-15C, and myself was thinking that the rl Flanker really is at a big disadvantage in that field..

 

It is - at least in its un-upgraded form.....mind you, the APG-63 from the same age wasn't as capable as current iterations either(and didn't support AMRAAMs back then).

 

I don't suppose we 'll ever see DCS Flankers reequipped with some more current avionics.. but wouldn't that be all good for this simulator?

 

The radar alone(upgraded N001 at least) should not be a problem, but the Su-27SM has a lot of other new gadgets that might be, so I think its more an issue of modelling a newer Flanker version as such.

[Alfa]

They did at one point mention they're doing an Su-27SM, but have since retracted that, probably due to very restrictive laws...

 

I think it was simply down to lack of available documentation on varies systems for the Su-27SM - the "Pastel RWS" for one, how information is displayed on those shiny new LCDs etc.

 

But if you by "restrictive laws" mean classified information, then yes I guess so :)

[*Rage*]

Any idea in detail what is upgraded over the standard S in the SM? Information is sketchy. SMs are currently deployed in Crimea.

[Alfa]

Any idea in detail what is upgraded over the standard S in the SM? Information is sketchy. SMs are currently deployed in Crimea.

 

Some :)

 

- the radar(N001VE),

- the EOS(with TV channel)

- the RWS("Pastel" with support for anti-radar missiles)

- the information display(large colour LCDs and upgraded HUD)

 

But I am sure also the navigation system and a whole lot of other things along the lines of what was performed with the Su-25SM(for which there is a pretty comprehensive account).

[*Rage*]

Im guessing ED could probably make a reasonable guess and implement an FC3 style SM based on available data and then improve on that as they have done with the other FC3 style fighters over the years.

[Alfa]

Yes maybe, but I doubt they would :)

 

And even for something like that it would still be a big problem with the information display - I don't know how much can be found, but all I have seen is basic instrumentation(such as ADI, IAS etc) replicated graphically on the LCDs.

[Svend_Dellepude]

I read somewhere on the forums that the russian laws for something to be considered espionage are pretty tight, and that this seems to be the major showstopper regarding modelling of modern(ish) russian equipment.

[DarkFire]

I read somewhere on the forums that the russian laws for something to be considered espionage are pretty tight, and that this seems to be the major showstopper regarding modelling of modern(ish) russian equipment.

 

I'd foresee this as being the major issue with modelling any modern Russian aircraft to a DCS standard: some chap from the Russian ministry of defence would turn up and say "Oh no you don't" and that would sadly be the end of that idea :(

 

It's why I think it'll be years, if ever, before we see the Su-34 as a flyable aircraft, and sadly the same might well be true of the Su-24M2 which I think would be a very nice complement to the existing Su-25T.

[Santi871]

I read somewhere on the forums that the russian laws for something to be considered espionage are pretty tight

 

How is that different from any other major military in the world? No one wants to reveal the capabilities of anything modern, and that doesn't only apply to planes - let's not forget we could've known where MH370 ended up except that no major power wanted to reveal their primary radar capabilities, not even to (potentially) save hundreds of civilian lives.

[Weta43]

Maybe a different in the State's reaction to, & the consequences of, getting the 'corporate freedom vs National interests' balance wrong.

 

(undoing the original edit - thought better of what was here..)

Edited October 31, 2015 by Weta43

[Alfa]

I read somewhere on the forums that the russian laws for something to be considered espionage are pretty tight, and that this seems to be the major showstopper regarding modelling of modern(ish) russian equipment.

 

I am afraid this is yet another one of those forum ideas that has taken a life of its own :D

 

The "restrictive law" in question is the one introduced by the Russian government concerning foreign NGOs having to register with the authorities in order to operate in the country - I could imagine that this could create an atmosphere in which it could be difficult to get people "in the know" about military equipment to talk to foreigners about it and IIRC this issue was mentioned(by someone from ED) specifically in response to a question as to why there aren't more third party developers[read western] working on Russian aircraft.

 

But in regards as to what would prevent ED from developing a "full DCS" Su-27SM, Su-35S, Su-34.....PAK-FA module, I think it is the same that prevents anyone from making an F-35 or F-22 ditto - no documentation available for the purpose :) .

[Svend_Dellepude]

- let's not forget we could've known where MH370 ended up except that no major power wanted to reveal their primary radar capabilities, not even to (potentially) save hundreds of civilian lives.

 

Hehe! Kinda speculating here are we? :)

Anyway, just what i've read and not to be taken for more than it is.