Silent Warrior Posted June 26, 2006 Posted June 26, 2006 Time to cause my student-economy some pain, I fear... I planned to upgrade during this summer, advent of NWN2, luke-warm-at-best FPS in LOMAC (I'm still bitter about that reportedly un-LODed 40000+ poly F/A-18 ), and a general urge to, you know, remove a couple of dust-layers inside the chassis, and an attempt at acceptable FPS in X3 (it was a Christmas-gift, ok?). Bleh. GUIDE MEEEEEEEE!:helpsmilie: What I'd be going FROM (i.e. components that won't carry over): ASUS P4T-E Pentium 4 2.0A GHz (anyone got a guess what that A is there for?) 512 RDRAM (possibly PC2700, two 256-sticks) Radeon 9600 256 Mb (MIGHT be a Pro-version. MIGHT being a key-word here.) Things to consider: I WON'T use SLI/CrossFire. I WILL use a non-integrated soundcard (X-Fi ExtremeMusic). I CAN'T afford maximum gear (although it's really only the graphics card that will make or break the budget). This includes T3H UB4R just out of ATI's/nVidia's factories and dual-core/multi-CPU setups. I would like to keep power-consumption down (score one for AM2?). Candidates for end-result: MOTHERBOARDS s939 Abit AN8 FATAL1TY*nF4 ASUS ATX A8R-MVPRD480 ASUS A8N-SLI DELUXEnForce FoxConn NF4UK8AA-8EKRS Second and fourth entry are the cheaper ones, Abit AN8 being the most expensive. AM2 ASUS M2N-E nForce 570 All the other AM2-boards were SLI-supercharged and whatnot. An interesting fact is that this mb is between the two cheapest s939-boards in price. CPUs s939 Athlon64 3800+ Venice Athlon64 4000+ San Diego Athlon64 X2 3800+ Manchester AM2 Athlon64 3800+ Athlon64 X2 3800+ Athlon64 X2 4000+ There's no real price-difference here - something fascinating DOWN HERE is that the 4000+ San Diego is cheaper than the 3800+ Venice. I didn't see any Energy Efficient labels at the webshop. RAM PC3200/DDR-400 (for s939) 1024 Mb Original x1 512 Mb Original x2 PC5300/DDR2-667 (for AM2) 1024 Mb Original x1 There are SamsungDIMMs in there, costs slightly more, and there are ECC-DIMMs - wallet go OUCHIE! All listed here are non-ECC, and since it's apparently cheaper, I was hoping to go with only one stick. GRAPHICS CARD (Oh noes!) ATI X1600 Pro 512 Mb PCIe ATI X1900XT 512 Mb PCIe Yup, I'm the #1 ATI-whore. And this is where it gets either interesting or very very painful. The 1600 costs about a third of the 1900 (almost EXACTLY a third, actually). I'm not greatly concerned about performance, although NWN2 is looming... and will be a kick in the teeth and no mistake... I'm after ShaderModel 2 or 3 (so I will not cry), and judging from ATI's product-pages, both seem to be SM3-capable - though obviously the 1900 will do it faster. If I buy the 1900, I won't have a whole lot to spare (no XBox360/PS3 for me this year, that is). Either way, where FPS is a factor, it seems my monitor will be the limiting factor no matter which card I get. It might not be a bad idea to have money to spare for a new one - it is eight years old and has made some strange sounds occasionally over the last two years. I have seen a screen die before, and there are no obvious such signs (yet), so I should manage just nicely. The limit? 1280x1024 60Hz. :rolleyes: It's a Compaq MV700. Yup, before HP snagged 'em. Well before that. :D CARRIED-OVER COMPONENTS Soundcard - SB X-Fi ExtremeMusic Monitor Keyboard + Mouse Speakers (a whole lot of 'em) Harddrives Network-card Joystick(s) - duh :joystick: Chassis + PSU ... and everything else I've failed to mention. So, any known problems with some combination there-of? All cool for LOMAC/FC? (I'll wait for a BS-demo before I decide on that.)
Nate Dogg Posted June 26, 2006 Posted June 26, 2006 That all looks good, only bear in mind Lockon wont use dual core, but in the long run games and other apps will use it. At least get the 4000+ as CPU is the thing that will go far with lockon. I would opt for the 1900XT as it will last you a lot longer than the 1600pro. Bottom line, go for the better GPU and the best CPU you can afford. good luck
NEODARK Posted June 26, 2006 Posted June 26, 2006 LockOn is CPU limited, NOT GPU.. that said a GPU will go farther in "other" games. so its a tossup depending on what you want. If you want to overclock, the odds become much better in your favor (as in save the cash with a slower chip and buy a more expensive GPU, then overclock the CPU to keep up with the faster GPU) We are really close to Intel's conroe, you might want to wait to see some numbers in lockon. As that is a whole new architecture and right now seems much faster than what AMD has to offer (939 or AM2 which is basically the same, and goes back to 754) Remember, you WANT a faster CPU for lockon, overclocked or not. Almost everything else, a faster GPU.
Silent Warrior Posted June 26, 2006 Author Posted June 26, 2006 LockOn is CPU limited, NOT GPU.. that said a GPU will go farther in "other" games. I've noticed that, believe me... I've been everywhere between 2 and 62 FPS on the same graphics-settings in-game. ;) A beefier CPU would help in all those F4-versions... Oh well. I'm a bit wary of overclocking - I don't want to break the gear the first thing I do. Conroe... Betcha half a grand it'll be a pricey *beep*. But if there's a price-drop to come hot on its heels, I can wait a bit. But, it's still that GPU that's critical... Nate Dogg: Check... Man, I'd better not have any significant expenses coming up after this. So, with some new intel on AM2<=>s939, the configuration narrows down to this: ASUS M2N-E nForce 570 (AM2) Athlon64 X2 4000+ 1024 Mb Original PC5300 (DDR2-667) x1 ATI X1900XT 512 Mb PCIe All opposed, may they speak now or forever hold their peace. (Someone say something really nice about the X1600 that the X1900 doesn't have, quick!)
Silent Warrior Posted July 25, 2006 Author Posted July 25, 2006 OK, today I'll be shelling out the cash. There's been an ever so slight change to the end results, though: ASUS M2N-E Athlon64 X2 4200+ 2x 512 Mb DDR2 667 MHz X1900XT 512 Mb Yay! Now I probably can't afford Black Shark! :D Anyway, <fast forward>, so if anyone would for some bizarre reason want to buy a tried and true ATI Rage Fury, do contact me.
169th_Bat Posted July 25, 2006 Posted July 25, 2006 That all looks good, only bear in mind Lockon wont use dual core, Are you saying that If I get a Dual Core, Lockon will not run? "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few". - Sir Winston Churchill 1940.
ED Team Groove Posted July 25, 2006 ED Team Posted July 25, 2006 it will run but it will not benefit from the dual core in a manner you would think it would ;) Our Forum Rules: http://forums.eagle.ru/rules.php#en
muamshai Posted July 25, 2006 Posted July 25, 2006 Power supply should be over 550W if you are going to use some fans in your chasis (I mean your system's chasis :D). I guess that you'd go for flux protection, ultra silent, Overvoltage Protection. Here is a good article what you should consider (http://www.tigerdirect.com/static/html/powersuppliesguide.html) Enermax (http://www.enermaxusa.com/) makes quite good power supply. This space is available for your advertisement
Silent Warrior Posted July 25, 2006 Author Posted July 25, 2006 Uh... Damn... I'm... supposed to... have a PSU with a specifically PCI-Express-compliant connector, aren't I? One that says PCI-E all over it and stuff? *Engage Saavedro-mode* NO, NO, NO, NO NO NO NO! [Proceeding to rip open the packaging for clues.] Whoa! That's one big heatsink you've got there! (Will this thing even fit?) *Gasp* Only DVI-connectors??? *Finds the adapters allowing use of me olde CRT* Phew! Huh... Dude, I'm not trusting Connect3D's manuals ever again if I don't have to... Mine makes continuous references to X800, and not one beep about X1900. Time to open up the chassis and see if I have that connector already by pure luck... And again. Oooookay... One new PSU, and all will be nirvana. Looks like it'll be a FSP Blue Storm. Good thing they cut the price on that CPU by about a third... :pilotfly:
TucksonSonny Posted July 25, 2006 Posted July 25, 2006 At the moment I would go Conroe but since yesterday AMD Slashes Dual-Core Processor Prices In Half: - AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+: 57% reduction - Low-end 3800+: price drops 50% to $152. - High-end AMD64 FX-62 : price drops 20% (from $1,031 to $827) http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1993576,00.asp :bounce: DELL Intel® Core™ i7 Processor 940 2,93 GHz @3 GHz, 8 MB cache | 8.192 MB 1.067 MHz Tri Channel DDR3 | 512 MB ATI® Radeon™ 4850 | 500 GB 7200 rpm Serial ATA | Samsung SM 2693 HM 25.5 " | HOTAS Cougar Thrustmaster |
Silent Warrior Posted July 27, 2006 Author Posted July 27, 2006 I noticed and appreciated that reduction, indeed! But... there was only one IDE-connector (and half a billion SATA) in the M2N, and I needed two IDE... and I already attached the CPU before I found out... I HATE UPGRADING! Well, so I called the store, and we agreed that I was going to get another motherboard with two IDE-connectors (Microstar (MSI?) something-something-Ultra). Now, how the flying **** am I going to get the CPU out of the socket without explosives? That heatsink sits too tightly! NB: Supposedly, IDE is being phased out to favour SATA, it being newer and fancier. However, guess what I found on that M2N? A floppy-connector. [Edit] Never mind, I got it out. Somehow... Also, you should see the number of screws I had to unscrew to get the P2-motherboard out of my other machine (moving the spare-parts to that one)! Screws everywhere! I even had to deal with screws INSIDE the CPU's heatsink! I'll have them counted for the next edit/post. Screws counted... 37. Including 4-6 thingies that provide a secure foothold for various connectors on the rear panel. I'm not gonna guess what they're called. 37 screws to dismount ONE motherboard!
Silent Warrior Posted July 27, 2006 Author Posted July 27, 2006 Ok, that motherboard ALSO had only one IDE-connector. I'll be getting an IDE-controller-card, then. Time to put it all together, AGAIN... [First boot-up] Oh, for crying out loud... Everything connected, most likely the right way up (now that I reconnected the PWR LED-thingy properly, that is), and Windows won't start. Every time when that log-in screen should pop up, boom, reboot. :furious: Try failsafe, same thing. I get picture, so the X1900 and monitor must be okay. Stuff happens, so the motherboard and CPU must be ok. RAM is detected properly, so it should be in good shape too, right? Soundcard hasn't had a chance to shine yet, and all I can tell from the network-card is that it's connected and powered. I didn't prepare, like, at all for the transition (uninstall some drivers, install yet others, poke around in Device Manager until the machine thinks it's dual-core), but that shouldn't matter THIS much, should it? Am I the next victim of Starforce, or something?:helpsmilie: I've contacted ASUS, I'm just stopping by on the way to Starforce. [Edit] Well, Starforce says it ain't them, and recommended an XP-reinstall. Damn it and then some, haven't I done that enough this year? *Whine* I HATE UPRADING!
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