New D-9 FM since 2.0?

[NineLine]

:helpsmilie:

 

I published it....can you fix it so that it is embedded.

 

Yes, now edit your post again so you can see how its done ;)

[NineLine]

Ok, sorry to interrupt all this math stuff, you latest video, what I see, you get a possible shot on him once or twice, but you dont appear to be able to hold it there, correct?

[ElGringo]

I really don' t get it. People were fine with the FMs before 1.5.1, but they are complaining now. Obviously, something has changed. Shouldn' t this simple logic be enough to warrant a check of the FMs on your side? Do we really need to delve in those long-winded technical arguments?

[Crumpp]

Ok, sorry to interrupt all this math stuff, you latest video, what I see, you get a possible shot on him once or twice, but you dont appear to be able to hold it there, correct?

 

It is held quite comfortably. I am just playing and showing the superiority. I pull ahead and drift back to illustrate that.

[NineLine]

I really don' t get it. People were fine with the FMs before 1.5.1, but they are complaining now. Obviously, something has changed. Shouldn' t this simple logic be enough to warrant a check of the FMs on your side? Do we really need to delve in those long-winded technical arguments?

 

If you dont want to be in on the conversation you can chose not to read the thread, its quite simple.

[NineLine]

It is held quite comfortably. I am just playing and showing the superiority. I pull ahead and drift back to illustrate that.

 

Ok, so thats a bad video, because it looks like you are struggling to get a shot on him :)

 

But I still go back to this important point.

 

The pilot variable. If he isnt flying the 190 optimally then you could be having an easier time getting him lined up for a shot, which would explain many kills in dogfighting history ;)

[Crumpp]

Yes, now edit your post again so you can see how its done ;)

 

LOL...YES SIR!!

[NineLine]

LOL...YES SIR!!

 

;)

[ElGringo]

If you dont want to be in on the conversation you can chose not to read the thread, its quite simple.

 

You did not answer my question Sithspawn.

[NineLine]

You did not answer my question Sithspawn.

 

Read the thread, you will find the answer there. The Dev doesnt agree with what a couple people feel they are seeing.

Edited December 15, 2015 by NineLine

[ElGringo]

Read the thread, you will find the answer there. The Dev doesnt agree with what people feel they are seeing.

 

Then how do you explain that people were not complaining before 1.5.1? Why this sudden change of perception?

[NineLine]

Then how do you explain that people were not complaining before 1.5.1?

 

I dont know, how do you explain it if the Dev doesnt feel anything changed?

[ElGringo]

A dev should not "feel". He has all the means to check the FMs.

[NineLine]

A dev should not "feel". He has all the means to check the FMs.

 

:doh:

 

Let me be more clear. The Dev stated that nothing has changed with the FMs, and doesnt feel anything brought to this thread so far has proven anything.

 

Also let me add that the person that started this thread is the same guy that said the 109 was borked because he couldn't do a loop or cuban 8 with it...

[Art-J]

Well, since most of us still have 3 installs on our PC anyway, how about developing some standardized test scenario, which could be replicated both in 1.2.16 and 1.5.2.

[Crumpp]

Ok, so thats a bad video, because it looks like you are struggling to get a shot on him :)

 

But I still go back to this important point.

 

The pilot variable. If he isnt flying the 190 optimally then you could be having an easier time getting him lined up for a shot, which would explain many kills in dogfighting history ;)

 

I agree that the pilot factor is very important.

 

However, I am looking more at the velocities, altitude, and load factors. In Hummingbirds first film, the Dora spends the majority of the time ~370kph at 2.8G's.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2591966&postcount=70

 

At those speeds, the Dora still holds a rate of turn advantage, yet the Mustang is able to sustain a higher rate in the game.

 

That is according to Yo-Yo's chart:

 

 

Within significant digits.....Yo-Yo's and I performance analysis agrees, SiThSpAwN.

 

how do you explain it if the Dev doesnt feel anything changed?

 

I really do not think this is Yo-Yo's flight model. I think an error has been introduced in the time between he completes the FM file to the point it ends up on our machines online.

 

That is only thing that explains why the math reflects the same relative performance, Yo-Yo cannot find a FM error, and we are seeing different relative performance online.

 

:thumbup:

Edited December 15, 2015 by Crumpp

[NineLine]

I really do not think this is Yo-Yo's flight model. I think an error has been introduced in the time between he completes the FM file to the point it ends up on our machines online.

 

That is only thing that explains why the math reflects the same relative performance, Yo-Yo cannot find a FM error, and we are seeing different relative performance online.

 

:thumbup:

 

I would be more inclined to think it would effect more than just 1 or 2 modules then though...

[Crumpp]

I would be more inclined to think it would effect more than just 1 or 2 modules then though...

 

Maybe. I would think the old bugs of the Left cannon not firing and the MW50 gauge not working showing up again in this last build might be a clue.

 

Both of those were fixed for several builds and then all of sudden after this last update, they show up again?

 

:dunno:

[MiloMorai]

The results were the same doing right turns?

[NineLine]

Maybe. I would think the old bugs of the Left cannon not firing and the MW50 gauge not working showing up again in this last build might be a clue.

 

Both of those were fixed for several builds and then all of sudden after this last update, they show up again?

 

:dunno:

 

But those were much more recent than any FM changes, and again.. I dont see much if any issue, and Yo-Yo has confirmed that, so we have come full circle again :D

 

I am gonna fly over the holidays, I hope to be done with some other testing chores by then, and I want to mess with exporting to a graph and all the good stuff so its easier to do spot checks occasionally, just in case. The FM though, its pretty bullet proof from accidental changes unless someone one was in there mucking around, and Yo-Yo would be the person doing the mucking...

[NineLine]

The results were the same doing right turns?

 

yes would be interesting to see results both ways.

[Crumpp]

It is the same whether you turn right or left. I recorded one but the fraps made it slide show.

[Hummingbird]

Crumpp do you have an Nvidia graphics card? If so some of the newer ones have a nice feature called Shadow Play with which you can record your game sessions. That is what I used to get the longer videos. I can help you set it up if need be :)

 

I am up for a another test in both directions when you get the time : But I must stress the importance of voice comms to reduce the preparation time :D

[Crumpp]

I am back to work so it will be at least 4 days.

[Crumpp]

150 knots for P-51? it means 173.5 mph that greater than the climb speed (160 mph - see POH) only for 8.5%.

 

It is nonsense because in the real world the best turn speed for the planes having max sustained G circa 3 is about 30% percent due to fundamental relations between 1g power curves and loaded power curves.

 

That's why I can not presume these curves as right reference.

 

??? I missed this!

 

165mph Indicated Airspeed for the measured data I used. I think North American can find Best Rate of Climb Speed in their own design.

 

At it is 148.5KEAS on the spreadsheet.

 

148.5 * 1.15 = 171mph CAS - 6 mph PEC = 165mph IAS

 

The British POH list's "approxiamately and the P-51D POH list's 175 at Sea level for a Military power climb...not the 67" WEP used in the North American test.

 

C. Climb Data

 

Curves indicating war emergency power climb performance (3000 RPM and 67" Hg) are given in Figure 5, 6, and 7, Appendix A. Four check climbs were flown, two in low blower from the ground up to 18000 feet and two in high blower from 17,000 feet to service ceiling. Tests were flown with coolant flaps in automatic and mixture set in "run" at a take-off gross weight of 9760 pounds. Data is as follows:

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/p51d-15342.html

 

The curves fit all the performance parameters for both aircraft's design speeds.