tombeckett2285 Posted December 17, 2015 Posted December 17, 2015 Morning People, The Su-25A is my favourite aircraft in DCS - there is something much more satisfying about destroying visually spotted ground targets than dogfighting with radar etc! I'm attempting to build a realistic campaign based on a monthly snapshot of RAF operations over Iraq and Syria, but moulding the background and targets to fit the Black Sea theatre. By realistic I mean 2-4 weapons per aircraft per sortie - none of this Rambo nonsense with PTAB's, MBD racks, KH25 and S-8 rockets on every pylon to take out 12-15 targets. More targtes = more aircraft, not more weapons! Now, obviously the RAF use exclusively precision guided weaponry in their operations against IS which are not available for the SU-25A. I also note that the RuAF are using FAB-250's on a lot of their ground attacks in Syria. While mooching through YouTube I found this video: which shows Su-25's in action. I can see they are using unguided rockets for ground attacks, but does anybody know which ones? It looks to me to be a combination of S-25 and S-8, but I'd like to know for sure because it would be nice to blend these kind of strikes into the campaign. Cheers Guys, Tom :thumbup: "The only replacement for a Buccaneer is a Buccaneer".
Nerd1000 Posted December 17, 2015 Posted December 17, 2015 At the beginning they're loading S-8 and various bombs. The plane taxiing near the end of the video is loaded with S-13 pods.
LeVince Posted December 17, 2015 Posted December 17, 2015 http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2082108&postcount=40 It will help :thumbup::thumbup: Elève Su-25 EVAC
Dr_Arrow Posted December 17, 2015 Posted December 17, 2015 Morning People, The Su-25A is my favourite aircraft in DCS - there is something much more satisfying about destroying visually spotted ground targets than dogfighting with radar etc! I'm attempting to build a realistic campaign based on a monthly snapshot of RAF operations over Iraq and Syria, but moulding the background and targets to fit the Black Sea theatre. By realistic I mean 2-4 weapons per aircraft per sortie - none of this Rambo nonsense with PTAB's, MBD racks, KH25 and S-8 rockets on every pylon to take out 12-15 targets. More targtes = more aircraft, not more weapons! Now, obviously the RAF use exclusively precision guided weaponry in their operations against IS which are not available for the SU-25A. I also note that the RuAF are using FAB-250's on a lot of their ground attacks in Syria. While mooching through YouTube I found this video: which shows Su-25's in action. I can see they are using unguided rockets for ground attacks, but does anybody know which ones? It looks to me to be a combination of S-25 and S-8, but I'd like to know for sure because it would be nice to blend these kind of strikes into the campaign. Cheers Guys, Tom :thumbup: :thumbup:, great approach - I just want to advise you that you cannot combine two different rocket types for one aircraft, there is a limitation of the ballistic computer and also pulse generation settings/hard-point settings. The same applies to bombs. You can however combine bombs/rockets, but it is not used much in practice. From what I've read and talked to RL pilots, the most common operational loadouts were (1980-2000): 2/4xS-8+drop tanks, 4xFAB-250/4xRBK-250+drop tanks, or 2xS-25/4xS-24 + drop tanks, 16xFAB-100+drop tanks.
Dr_Arrow Posted December 17, 2015 Posted December 17, 2015 http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2082108&postcount=40 It will help :thumbup::thumbup: Sorry, but these are not operational loadouts - actually quite far from it. It is rather a diagram of what can be maximally hanged and combined on the aircraft, moreover combining A/T/TM with some really theoretical loadouts. For example R-60 missiles are very rarely used on Su-25A.
Stratos Posted December 17, 2015 Posted December 17, 2015 Sorry, but these are not operational loadouts - actually quite far from it. It is rather a diagram of what can be maximally hanged and combined on the aircraft, moreover combining A/T/TM with some really theoretical loadouts. For example R-60 missiles are very rarely used on Su-25A. Can you please develop a bit more this statements? Specially the realistic loadouts thingie, I always carry all hardpoints, and you say this is not realistic. About the R60, If you have total air superiority is ok not to carry, but If you can encounter other airplanes, I think is a must. I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!
Dr_Arrow Posted December 17, 2015 Posted December 17, 2015 Can you please develop a bit more this statements? Specially the realistic loadouts thingie, I always carry all hardpoints, and you say this is not realistic. About the R60, If you have total air superiority is ok not to carry, but If you can encounter other airplanes, I think is a must. Of course you can hang all pylons and the aircraft will fly with them, I was just trying to show what are the common loadouts used in RL operations. I have several friends who worked at Su-25s when our airforce operated them and have asked them about operational loadouts. I also have manuals and there are also some nice books for example from A. Mladenov about Su-25A and its operational use. You don't want to be heavy and draggy in combat, if you want to increase firepower you increase the number of aircraft participating in a mission. You can also review current videos from Syria, where the loadouts are usually very light.
Stratos Posted December 17, 2015 Posted December 17, 2015 i see the point of your toughts, can you please give us more examples of those loadouts? Also whenyou talk about increasing planes to increase firepower, for example 4 planes flights? Or maybe bigger? I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!
LeVince Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Good article about Russianaicraft and their loadouts in syria http://theaviationist.com/2015/12/22/everyday-life-at-latakia-airbase-photos/ Elève Su-25 EVAC
Weta43 Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 The S-24 was originally the 'primary' weapon of the Su-25, but was withdrawn after issues with engines shutting down after ingesting rocket smoke from salvo launches. That's not an issue in the sim. The aircraft experienced a number of accidents in operational service caused by system failures attributed to salvo firing of weapons. In the wake of these incidents, use of its main armament, the 240 mm S-24 rocket, was prohibited. In its place, the FAB-500 500 kg general-purpose high-explosive bomb became the primary armament. Cheers.
Avimimus Posted December 26, 2015 Posted December 26, 2015 The S-24 was originally the 'primary' weapon of the Su-25, but was withdrawn after issues with engines shutting down after ingesting rocket smoke from salvo launches. That's not an issue in the sim. Funny that - I was already avoiding loading such weapons on the inner most hardpoints for just that reason. I guess my instincts are right! I guess I should probably avoid the inner-most two pairs of hardpoints? Any word on the S-13? A salvo of those produces a lot of gas!
Weta43 Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 I guess the thing it that the reason they had the trouble with the engines is that the S-24 used to be the standard combat load - so loading them on any/all pylon(s) is perfectly realistic - for the period up until the order not to use them was issued, and as there is no surge/flameout modelled from the smoke, is a valid load-out in DCS... (it being something that was a problem, not something that was a certainty...) Cheers.
Stratos Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) What about this 4xFAB-100 on a pylon? Can the A carry that? Will love it in DCS! The pic is from a Khazak Su-25, source here: http://www.flying-wings.com/2012/astana-kadex-2012 Edited December 27, 2015 by Stratos Added source web. I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!
tombeckett2285 Posted December 27, 2015 Author Posted December 27, 2015 Yes, that is the MBD bomb rack. It is part of the standard armament in the sim, the Su-25 can carry up to eight MBD racks at once but you can only release all bombs from a rack at once in a cluster of four. They do make absolutely splendid anti convoy weapons if used in a ripple of 0.2-0.4 seconds and will take out most things. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk "The only replacement for a Buccaneer is a Buccaneer".
T0x1s Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 I love the cluster bomb(don't remember the name of it) which releases 96 small bombs :D Also how much do the SU-25A use guided missiles in real life?
tombeckett2285 Posted January 12, 2016 Author Posted January 12, 2016 I just want to advise you that you cannot combine two different rocket types for one aircraft, there is a limitation of the ballistic computer and also pulse generation settings/hard-point settings. The same applies to bombs. Just rereading this thread and picked up on this point; however there are pictures of Su-25 aircraft at Latakia equipped with both B-8 pods and B-13 pods at the same time. Is this due to the improved avionics of the SM3 upgrade? "The only replacement for a Buccaneer is a Buccaneer".
pepin1234 Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 No. This payload is a classic in Su-25A too [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
LeVince Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 You can combine all types of rockets or bombs, but you can't combine three types of weapons, you can use Bomb+Rocket or Bomb+missile (+ air-air missiles and gun ) but Bomb+missile+rocket = impossible. http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1538414&postcount=12 Elève Su-25 EVAC
Tarres Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 In this image there are two only two type of weapons: B-8 of the same type and S13 of the same type. If the payload is for example: B8KOM+B8OFP2+S13 (3 types of weapons) the WCS can´t handle with them, even in the SM3 upgrade I think.
LeVince Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 In this image there are two only two type of weapons: B-8 of the same type and S13 of the same type. If the payload is for example: B8KOM+B8OFP2+S13 (3 types of weapons) the WCS can´t handle with them, even in the SM3 upgrade I think. This is 3 rockets so it's good when i say type of weapon i mean bomb, rocket and missiles Elève Su-25 EVAC
Dr_Arrow Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 On a standard Su-25A you cannot even combine S-13 and S-8. You can fire them, but they have different ballistics and the WCS can be programmed only for one rocket ballistics. So you could theoretically fire both of them but the S-13 or S-8 would fall not where the piper aims. Unless you fire them in Setka mode. Other problem is that also pulse generator can be configured only for single rocket type (B-8 needs 20 pulses, B-13 only 5 pulses). Of course newer upgrades are more capable in this, but Su-25Ks from the eighties had this limitation. The same goes for bombs, you never combine FAB-500 FAB-250 FAB-100, because the WCS can have only one bomb ballistics programmed.
Tarres Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 Translation problem Arrow. Sorry, you are right.
pepin1234 Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) In this image there are two only two type of weapons: B-8 of the same type and S13 of the same type. If the payload is for example: B8KOM+B8OFP2+S13 (3 types of weapons) the WCS can´t handle with them, even in the SM3 upgrade I think. My friend you are wrong. The rockets have not a chip or be wired to make a ballistic calculation. Is Simple a pre-set calculation setting by the ground crew. Unguided weapons does not mean you need put the bomb or rocket through the eye of the enemy. The S-8KOM or S-8OFP ballistic setting could be easily the same, they will be spread over the attack area. Edited January 16, 2016 by pepin1234 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Nerd1000 Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 My friend you are wrong. The rockets have not a chip or be wired to make a ballistic calculation. Is Simple a pre-set calculation setting by the ground crew. Unguided weapons does not mean you need put the bomb or rocket through the aye of the enemy. The S-8KOM or S-8OFP ballistic setting could be easily the same, they will be spread over the attack area. They spread a lot, but much more important is the limited impulse of the rocket engine. The heavier the warhead, the shorter the distance the rocket will fly. You can really see this if you fly the Ka-50 and switch the ballistics selector to the setting for S-8KOM while firing the S-8OFP2. The rockets will land significantly below the pipper at normal firing ranges, to the point where the target will be well outside the spread of rockets.
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