Removed

[Rlaxoxo]

How will the warmup work from a cold startup?

 

I wonder this too ...

 

Would be cool if it's already on, i mean it is 90 minutes if you want it to last long you just put it on standby

[spiddx]

I wonder this too ...

 

Would be cool if it's already on, i mean it is 90 minutes if you want it to last long you just put it on standby

 

Looking at this post (point 4) I assume prep will come on automatically when you start up the airplane.

[npole]

The missiles are effective as they are (and from i can gather their performance matches real life stats as closely as anything else in DCS)

so i dont think they require Major Performance changes.

 

And there was no mention of any performance changes that i could see.

 

If you launch a missile at a target within launch parameters (and in the case of the 530 dont lose radar lock)

then you have good chances of hitting your target (Depending on the skill of the pilot you are launching at ofc).

 

The Magic II is pretty much as good as any of the other Short range IR guided missiles in the game (R-73 or Aim-9M etc)

it might have slightly shorter range but other then that its a very good missile.

 

And the 530 is as good as the R-27 and Aim-7.

 

I disagree.. the Mirage missiles (all of them) are currently useless. I play exclusively in MP (no PvE) and people with Mirages will end to use the gun because is more effective than this things! The magic especially, will only hit a going-straight target, otherwise is like launching a fridge to the enemy: any basic maneuver is enough to dodge it.

Good as the R27 and Aim7? Are you joking yes? A R27 can be launched at almost 90° toward the target and it will still kill the bandit!

 

Are you guys playing DCS in multiplayer ... or are you only doing SP? Because all this "mirage is so good" story is frankly odd.

We can say the Mirage sucks in real life as well (so it's realistic) .. but you can't say its weapons are good... they are nowhere near the R27.

[Gliptal]

I disagree.. the Mirage missiles (all of them) are currently useless. I play exclusively in MP (no PvE) and people with Mirages will end to use the gun because is more effective than this things! The magic especially, will only hit a going-straight target, otherwise is like launching a fridge to the enemy: any basic maneuver is enough to dodge it.

Good as the R27 and Aim7? Are you joking yes? A R27 can be launched at almost 90° toward the target and it will still kill the bandit!

 

Are you guys playing DCS in multiplayer ... or are you only doing SP? Because all this "mirage is so good" story is frankly odd.

We can say the Mirage sucks in real life as well (so it's realistic) .. but you can't say its weapons are good... they are nowhere near the R27.

Are you using the Matra versions?

[Rlaxoxo]

I don't think he is using them properly

[mattebubben]

I disagree.. the Mirage missiles (all of them) are currently useless. I play exclusively in MP (no PvE) and people with Mirages will end to use the gun because is more effective than this things! The magic especially, will only hit a going-straight target, otherwise is like launching a fridge to the enemy: any basic maneuver is enough to dodge it.

Good as the R27 and Aim7? Are you joking yes? A R27 can be launched at almost 90° toward the target and it will still kill the bandit!

 

Are you guys playing DCS in multiplayer ... or are you only doing SP? Because all this "mirage is so good" story is frankly odd.

We can say the Mirage sucks in real life as well (so it's realistic) .. but you can't say its weapons are good... they are nowhere near the R27.

 

 

I play only MP.

 

I avg 2-1 or 3-1 kill to death Ratios and regularly get 2-3 kills a sortie (some times even 4 and my personaly best was 4 on a single sortie with 100% missile kills + a gun kill)

 

The Magic II is very good.

 

As long as you fire it within its Launch Parameters (Outside Minimum range and inside recommended range)

 

And you have a solid lock on the target before you launch.

 

(since we cant slave the seeker to the radar yet you need to boresight to get the lock tone so dont just fire because you get the TIR launch command)

 

I regularly hit enemies pulling hard Gs with the Magic II and i probably have a 70% hit rate with my Magic IIs so it has no problems maneuvering.

 

The Super 530 is capable of launching off bore as long as you have a radar lock and if the enemy is not to close (or to far away) the missile should have no problems.

 

(My Current Hit rate with the Super 530 is probably around 40-50% which is bad for a SARH missile)

 

The missiles themselves (flight Performance etc) is just fine its the systems they are linked to that are not yet 100% complete but it gets better and better every patch and i have no problems using the Mirage 2000 effectively in MP

(i probably do better in the Mirage 2000 then any of the FC3 fighters but thats probably because it fits my flying style rather then it being the best fighter but it certainly aint alot worse then any of the FC3 fighters if the pilot uses it correctly)

 

And im not that great of a pilot so if i can use the Mirage 2000 and its weapons very effectively so i see no reason why others should not be able to do as well or most likely better.

Edited June 1, 2016 by mattebubben

[Zeus67]

I have technical questions:

 

Does setting your master arm to ON activate the missiles?

 

The 30sec preparation time for M2s, is this for cooling? Typically activating Master Arm will cool missiles/spin up gyros etc.

 

What seems a little strange to me with respect to M2s is this:

 

'Life time is 90 min, activating takes away 10min'.

 

I'll explain: Usually to me this means there's say, 90 min worth of coolant. You activate the missile which will usually draw coolant from a bottle in the pylon. In that respect, I understand 'lifetime' - there's a limited amount of coolant. This is realistic for a lot of missiles of that era.

 

What I don't understand is 'activation costs 10min' - IMHO it should 'cost' nothing. :)

 

I'd also call it 'Active Time' or 'Ready Time', not 'lifetime' just to keep things from being confusing. According to what you wrote, I understand that putting the missile in STBY will, in effect, not use any coolant and thus it will not decrease the active time.

 

The missile activation procedures, called PREPARATION, starts as soon as the AC generators come on line. This way you are ready to use them as soon as you get in the air.

 

In RL mission, flight time is longer than 90 minutes, so it makes sense to put all missiles in STANDBY while en route.

 

Master Arm condition is independent of missile status. Like the guns, you can have Master Arm ON and the missiles in STANDBY and you won't be able to shoot.

 

The cooling process takes the same amount of coolant as having the missiles active for 10 minutes. It is a fixed amount.

 

I call it 'lifetime' because that is the actual time the missiles are usable: 90 minutes. After that they are dead. Active time is just the time the seekers are cool and can track IR targets. so 'Active time' <= 'lifetime' always. Remember that in long flights you will put them in STANDBY so you can save on coolant, but when you reactivate them you will lose 10 minutes of their lifetime.

 

The Super 530Ds lifetime is measured in hours. It is higher than the actual hours of flight you can do with full tanks + all externals. But in this case once the missile lifetime is reached it is dead forever. Scratch one missile and go get a new one. That is why in RL it is SOP to put the Super 530Ds on STANDBY until you need them. After all these are BVR missiles, you will probably track a target for more time than the 45 seconds it takes to get them ready before you are ready to fire.

[mattebubben]

and The Magics are always Prepared (Activated) on takeoff?

you cant force them to stay in standby (to prevent losing those 10 minutes of coolant)

[grunf]

It would be nice to have an option in Mission editor to chose between activated and standby for hot start/air start.

[Zeus67]

and The Magics are always Prepared (Activated) on takeoff?

you cant force them to stay in standby (to prevent losing those 10 minutes of coolant)

 

All missiles are prepared on engine start. Yes, you have about 10 seconds to put them on standby before the coolant is used.

 

The MAGIC button have two legends: P and MAG.

MAG is lit for as long as you have MAGIC II missiles on board.

P is lit when the missiles are ready for use.

P blinks when the system is preparing the missiles. It is at this time, when the P is blinking, that you have to click in the button to stop the process and save coolant.

P is dark if the missiles are unavailable for use for any reason, including them being in STANDBY.

 

The 530Ds button have the same functionality on the legends are: P and MIS.

[Zeus67]

 

2 = 530D PREP button.

4 = MAGIC II PREP button.

[mattebubben]

Ok.

 

So during start up keep an eye on the lights and when it starts blinking press them (or atleast the Magic IIs Prep button)

to keep it in standby.

 

And its Activated by default in real life as well?

 

If it is i would assume the reason is to make the aircraft combat ready when wheels up (For scramble / close intercept situation).

 

As always Thank you for doing such a great work and for doing it at such a rapid pace.

[Zeus67]

Ok.

 

So during start up keep an eye on the lights and when it starts blinking press them (or atleast the Magic IIs Prep button)

to keep it in standby.

 

And its Activated by default in real life as well?

 

If it is i would assume the reason is to make the aircraft combat ready when wheels up (For scramble / close intercept situation).

 

As always Thank you for doing such a great work and for doing it at such a rapid pace.

 

Yes. That is how they work in real life and indeed the reason is so you have the missiles ready to use in emergency takeoffs.

[mattebubben]

Do you know if it is normal procedure for pilots to put them on standby instantly (before the finish Activating on startup) in order to spare the Seeker?

(For Routine flights where no combat is expected right away)

 

And on a side note.

 

Will the CCM changes come at the same time as these changes?

 

And thanks for being so willing and quick to answer questions.

 

Its a Part of what makes you guys the Nr1 3rd Party Dev team for DCS in my eyes =) (that together with the quality of your products)

[fixen]

I have a question which is related but not applicable in DCS.

IRL would they just replace the seekers on the missiles or is the entire missile junk after a flight?

[Flagrum]

• Activating the MAGIC IIs take 30 seconds and decrease the lifetime by 10 minutes.

All missiles are prepared on engine start. Yes, you have about 10 seconds to put them on standby before the coolant is used.

 

This I don't understand, yet. Activating from standby takes 30 seconds, but preparing at engine start only about 10 seconds?

 

And another thing, just to make sure I understand it all correctly: the 90 minute lifetime is after engine start when the missile is already prepared, correct? If so, that would mean that the aircraft is carrying coolant worth for 100 minutes, but 10 minutes are already used up at engine start. But even if I stop the preparation at engine start, leaving me with coolant worth for 100 minutes, when I eventually activate the missile, it uses up 10 minutes and from there on I am left with those 90 minutes again. Did I get that correctly?

[Zeus67]

 

 

This I don't understand, yet. Activating from standby takes 30 seconds, but preparing at engine start only about 10 seconds?

 

And another thing, just to make sure I understand it all correctly: the 90 minute lifetime is after engine start when the missile is already prepared, correct? If so, that would mean that the aircraft is carrying coolant worth for 100 minutes, but 10 minutes are already used up at engine start. But even if I stop the preparation at engine start, leaving me with coolant worth for 100 minutes, when I eventually activate the missile, it uses up 10 minutes and from there on I am left with those 90 minutes again. Did I get that correctly?

 

Yes, the aircraft carries coolant for 100 minutes. 10 minutes worth of coolant is used during the initial preparation at engine start. So you start your flight with 90 minutes of coolant.

 

MAGIC II preparation take 30 seconds. You can stop the preparation by clicking on the MAGIC PREP button during the first 10 seconds and no coolant will be used.

[Zeus67]

I have a question which is related but not applicable in DCS.

IRL would they just replace the seekers on the missiles or is the entire missile junk after a flight?

 

I don't know. I am told that the MAGIC II total lifetime is for a classified number of hours, so they can be carried in several flights. Seeker head active lifetime during a flight is for as long as there is coolant. In this case: 90 minutes.

 

As for the 530Ds, the seeker total lifetime is also classified. Once the missile reaches the end of its lifetime, its seeker stop working and the entire missile must be replaced.

 

I assume that later in both cases the dead missile are sent back to the factory for refurbishing.

 

If anybody can shed more light on this issue he is welcome to do so. But I feel that this specific issue is not applicable to DCS, except as to the limits imposed on the missiles while attached to the M-2000C.

[TomCatMucDe]

I disagree.. the Mirage missiles (all of them) are currently useless. I play exclusively in MP (no PvE) and people with Mirages will end to use the gun because is more effective than this things! The magic especially, will only hit a going-straight target, otherwise is like launching a fridge to the enemy: any basic maneuver is enough to dodge it.

 

Good as the R27 and Aim7? Are you joking yes? A R27 can be launched at almost 90° toward the target and it will still kill the bandit!

 

 

 

Are you guys playing DCS in multiplayer ... or are you only doing SP? Because all this "mirage is so good" story is frankly odd.

 

We can say the Mirage sucks in real life as well (so it's realistic) .. but you can't say its weapons are good... they are nowhere near the R27.

 

 

 

You disagree and base your judgement on the impression you had reading the chat on Multiplayer ? :D your impression contradicts with the real experience of most players here. If there is one thing on the mirage that doesn't need more fine tuning today, it's the missiles. Start flying it and you will see. Meanwhile I splashing F15s on Blueflag

[mvsgas]

I assume that later in both cases the dead missile are sent back to the factory for refurbishing.

 

I can only assume it being similar to the older AIM-9, you only need a flat tip screw driver and 3 or 2 weapons guys to change the coolant reservoir (argon in the AIM-9M case).

http://www.af.mil/News/Photos.aspx?igphoto=2000439292

Edited June 2, 2016 by mvsgas

[Azrayen]

I have technical questions:

 

Does setting your master arm to ON activate the missiles?

No.

But selecting them (PCA, throttle selector) should (if they're in Stand by).

So almost the same.

Why?

Procedures call for a late arming of the Master Arm, you don't want to wait until that point to have your weapons prep'ed.

 

The 30sec preparation time for M2s, is this for cooling?

Yes, among other things.

 

What I don't understand is 'activation costs 10min' - IMHO it should 'cost' nothing. :)

Well in the opinion of pilots / former pilots on the M-2000C/B, it does cost 10 minutes.

As PiedDroit said, I can imagine that cooling (fast) a hot sensor will use more coolant than just maintaining cold temp afterwards, don't you agree? And this could be "translated" as 10 minutes less for maintaining cold temp.

 

I'd also call it 'Active Time' or 'Ready Time', not 'lifetime' just to keep things from being confusing. According to what you wrote, I understand that putting the missile in STBY will, in effect, not use any coolant and thus it will not decrease the active time.

Ready time is the most appropriate translation given the French word "Prêt", indeed :)

Edited June 2, 2016 by Azrayen

[silentconvo]

Am I right in assuming that the next update won't change the bomb salvo functionality?

[QuiGon]

I just want to thank mattebubben and Flagrum for asking those questions, because I was wondering about the same things. And thanks Zeus for answering them so quickly. It's much clearer now :thumbup:

 

And thanks to RAZBAM for the continious good work!

[Azrayen]

How will the warmup work from a cold startup?

Pun intended? :D

 

Do you know if it is normal procedure for pilots to put them on standby instantly (before the finish Activating on startup) in order to spare the Seeker?

(For Routine flights where no combat is expected right away)

Routine flights do not carry real missiles.

Only war-time / QRA aircraft missions. Then it'll depend on current conditions/expectations.

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

One question I have. When going on sortie and then landing with all missiles or a few attached, does the refueling and rearming reset the coolant like it does with the parachute?

 

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