cauldron Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 I have a question. Why does the gun piper (with the radar lock on the target) follow the gun snake? The gun snake is real time paths of bullets if fired, but the radar enabled piper should be predictive, much like that of the F-15's and Su-27/29's - but its not it follows the snake and becomes in essence a glorified range marker on the snake than a predictive mechanic. Is this a bug? or does the M2000 CQB radar gun mode non-predictive and is working as intended? cheers.
ttaylor0024 Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 The pipper just gives you ranging information, thus no target movement information. It's a glorified range marker.
Shooty_Deluxe Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 The pipper just gives you ranging information, thus no target movement information. It's a glorified range marker. So is this how it works IRL? Having a hard time with gun kills.
Stuge Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 Yep, the snake is harder to use than the traditional F-15/Su-27 pippers. But hey, it's a snake on a plane! 1 http://www.104thphoenix.com
ttaylor0024 Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 So is this how it works IRL? Having a hard time with gun kills. I don't know for sure because I haven't looked up real manuals (can't speak/read French), however I trust RAZBAM. A quick google search can at least verify (in images) that this same system was used in the 2000C's close cousin aircraft. Yep, the snake is harder to use than the traditional F-15/Su-27 pippers. But hey, it's a snake on a plane! Calm down, Samuel L. Jackson
jojo Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 For the record Rafale and Typhoon use the same system. Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2. Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi
cauldron Posted January 11, 2016 Author Posted January 11, 2016 if that's true, sucks for the Rafale & Typhoon pilots in a dogfight. :joystick:
sedenion Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) I think there are few problems with the current gun piper/snake: - The first "line" of the snake should be dashed (it is in the real). Full line as currently does not help lisibility - At close distance, the piper circle disappear (like it should) and the piper center is just invisble in the line (the center dot should be more visible) - The "frame rate" seem a bit too low, but pretty close to the real one (it seem) - The real problem i think: The distance/time range for the snake seem too long, it give history for too much distance with too bad resolution (i don't think the real give history for this range): this is useless and this is annoying. Currently, the gun piper is hard to use, this is true... Edited January 11, 2016 by sedenion
cauldron Posted January 11, 2016 Author Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) I see... still seems more pilot work load at a critical control input phase of flying, but for its worth, it can be made to work. Must get better using the force :joystick: Edited January 11, 2016 by cauldron
PiedDroit Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 I think there are few problems with the current gun piper/snake: - The first "line" of the snake should be dashed (it is in the real). Full line as currently does not help lisibility - At close distance, the piper circle disappear (like it should) and the piper center is just invisble in the line (the center dot should be more visible) - The "frame rate" seem a bit too low, but pretty close to the real one (it seem) - The real problem i think: The distance/time range for the snake seem too long, it give history for too much distance with too bad resolution (i don't think the real give history for this range): this is useless and this is annoying. Currently, the gun piper is hard to use, this is true... Very good points! I agree to all of them :thumbup: I find it more difficult to use than the F-15's or Su-27's but once you understand the differences, it is quite useable and accurate too. Check my post here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2638463&postcount=42 I'll try make a video since tracks are not working well.
PiedDroit Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) I made another track, this one is much shorter than the other I posted so it should be easier to replay (you also don't need to restart DCS to replay, it will lock even if the mode is boresight). I also captured it on video (first time ever I do that, it's pretty neat), I'll see if it's not too hard to upload it on youtube (later). It demonstrates a burst against a Su-27 that is moving slightly out of plane, a long distance shot. Here are a couple of screenshots ("shooting starts", "almost there" and "Ka-boom"): It's definitely not easy, especially with a target that tries to evade you, the best way to master it is to create a simple mission, start in the 6 of your target, and try shoot it down, rinse and repeat (I think I tried like 6 times before getting a decent shot on first turn to make this track). What is quite difficult to see on screenshots is that the piper must meet the target at the right time (along with the bullets), that's one thing, but the snake also is moving, like a downward motion, which makes your piper shake, too, that's why it's better to have a steady trajectory at the moment of the shooting, to make things a little bit easier ;)M-2000C gun Su-27.trk Edited January 13, 2016 by PiedDroit
NORTHMAN Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 I have no trouble at all with the gun! Lock the target, put the target into the round thing (piper ;)) following the snake and shoot... Prend ton temps mais fait ca vite :cold:... LG34''21:9 Asus 23''monitors Intel i7-4590 EVGA 1070 Superclocked Gskills 4x4G RAM Fatal1ty AsRock Z97 killer motherboard in a HAF black box with 4 CH products plug in and logitech G510, F310, M510 and M570 plus trackIR 5!
PiedDroit Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 I have no trouble at all with the gun! Lock the target, put the target into the round thing (piper ;)) following the snake and shoot... The most difficult part is to be able to it (1) quickly, not lose time on tracking and (2) not wasting ammo. (1) because the AI will not maneuver too much (which is good for basic training), but a human will try to shake you off.
cauldron Posted January 13, 2016 Author Posted January 13, 2016 Thanks again! Pied Droit I'm not as "force sensitive" as i used to be... but one can only get better with practice :thumbup:
spiddx Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Very helpful stuff, thanks! I've slaughtered AI planes for hours last evening and I think I'm slowly getting the hang of it. :) Specs: i9 10900K @ 5.1 GHz, EVGA GTX 1080Ti, MSI Z490 MEG Godlike, 32GB DDR4 @ 3600, Win 10, Samsung S34E790C, Vive, TIR5, 10cm extended Warthog on WarBRD, Crosswinds
cauldron Posted January 14, 2016 Author Posted January 14, 2016 piedroit - I've practiced your track and it helped me a lot... i'm getting a feel for it now. It helped a lot to know it was *not* predictive like the F-15's.. and i'm getting better at anticipating the bullet travel time... i can reliably hit now.!! Thank you.
PiedDroit Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 piedroit - I've practiced your track and it helped me a lot... i'm getting a feel for it now. It helped a lot to know it was *not* predictive like the F-15's.. and i'm getting better at anticipating the bullet travel time... i can reliably hit now.!! Thank you. Thanks, I appreciate! :blush: I'm glad to know I managed to help. This type of sight is new in DCS, it deserves an in-depth study on it's own. I also think this exercise will improve my gyro-sight shooting with older ships :D
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