TomCatMucDe Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Hello Razbam, I have flown the mirages for at least 30 hours since its launch. I love this plane and I would love to see it becoming even better. I am glad you are hard at work to bring it in that direction. I have one wish regarding the cockpit. The HUD console is really too big, it obstruct seeing many important instruments: The AoA, G meter, and even part of the RWR... I am aware that it is because of the point of the view of the pilote in the sim. In real you have 2 eyes, but to simulate this on a single display the things that are closer seem much bigger. However, I am sure this can be tweaked and simply make this console smaller, especially that it has a very small number of switches and is quite empty. Thanks a bunch.
Azrayen Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Agreed. I think Razbam is aware and, as a workaround, they made G & AoA displayed on the HUD (even when IRL you only have G, and only in a number of modes).
sedenion Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 (edited) Agreed. I think Razbam is aware and, as a workaround, they made G & AoA displayed on the HUD (even when IRL you only have G, and only in a number of modes). I think it's not needed... we just need allowing the camera to go more far from the HUD (currently x_trans is clamped at -0.04), and reajusting the HUD projection... in this way, the perspective allow to see what is at right and left of the HUD console, and the hud is not "cut"... then, you can "zoom in" and "zoom out" as you want, the perspective don't change... It's just a matter of camera position and HUD projection size. Edited January 14, 2016 by sedenion
Azrayen Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 I agree that Razbam could relax a bit the Z axis limitations (to accomodate for simulation), but I disagree that this is all what's needed. From RL M-2000 cockpit experience: It's tiny. First impression = you have the HUD console very close to your face. But you're also able to see the AoA meter and the G meter (without twisting/moving your head).
sedenion Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 (edited) I agree that Razbam could relax a bit the Z axis limitations (to accomodate for simulation), but I disagree that this is all what's needed. From RL M-2000 cockpit experience: It's tiny. First impression = you have the HUD console very close to your face. But you're also able to see the AoA meter and the G meter (without twisting/moving your head). Real-life versus virtual, you must cheat... the camera position / hud projection adjustement is the best cheat i think, that give a visual perspective more close to the reality of a pilote in the cockpit (which CAN see these things, us, no, due to 3D perspective maths)... EDIT: close, not close, that mean nearly nothing in our case, since the camera adjustement is something like 15-30 cm MAX... just set the default point of view more back in the seat, and you will see what you should, then, you just have to zoom in a bit to get a good overall view (but the hud projection should be adjusted too otherwise we would see nothing in the hud) Edited January 14, 2016 by sedenion
Flamin_Squirrel Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Agreed. I think Razbam is aware and, as a workaround, they made G & AoA displayed on the HUD (even when IRL you only have G, and only in a number of modes). Interesting, thanks. The brackets are genuine though I imagine? I find using those is good enough to judge AoA without seeing the gauge to the left of the HUD.
Azrayen Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 (edited) Real-life versus virtual, you must cheat... sedenion, this is exaclty what OP said, and I agreed with him...:music_whistling: the camera position / hud projection adjustement is the best cheat i think, that give a visual perspective more close to the reality of a pilote in the cockpit (which CAN see these things, us, no, due to 3D perspective maths)... It's good because it's easy/quick to do (another workaround), but not good enough IMO: If only "move back" the PoV, you're loosing instruments lisibility. In fact, I'm even questionning the DCS geometry vs RL one, and yes I know about perspective/projection issues when going from RL to simulation. Interesting, thanks. The brackets are genuine though I imagine? I find using those is good enough to judge AoA without seeing the gauge to the left of the HUD. My pleasure. Yes they are. Edited January 14, 2016 by Azrayen
sedenion Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 If only "move back" the PoV, you're loosing instruments lisibility. Not good enough. No, since you can zoom in, so you can have an overall good view... i think we do not need much to have what is needed. The only problem is the Hud projection, believe me (i was 3D artist/developer if an other life :D), if i was abble to set the x_trans at more than 0.04, i will show you...
TomCatMucDe Posted January 14, 2016 Author Posted January 14, 2016 Maybe they can consider doing the same thing as in BMS. The cockpit looks awful there but the console size is reasonable. I attach a snapshot from Youtube
Azrayen Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 (edited) The only problem is the Hud projection, believe me Sorry I don't. Remove "only" from your sentence and I will. :) you can zoom in, so you can have an overall good view Uh? Are you saying we shoud need to zoom each time we want to read an instrument from the panel? I wouldn't want that, it's very unpractical (and doesn't make me feel like I was sitting in the aircraft). Edited January 14, 2016 by Azrayen
TomCatMucDe Posted January 14, 2016 Author Posted January 14, 2016 Uh? Are you saying we shoud need to zoom each time we want to read an instrument from the panel? I wouldn't want that, it's very unpractical (and doesn't make me feel like I was sitting in the aircraft). That would be something horrible to do.
sedenion Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 (edited) Uh? Are you saying we shoud need to zoom each time we want to read an instrument from the panel? I wouldn't want that, it's very unpractical (and doesn't make me feel like I was sitting in the aircraft). NO, you just need to configure the default zoom a little in, that change almost nothing except you are a bit more far, so the default zoom need to be a bit more close... that's all... Edited January 14, 2016 by sedenion
Azrayen Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 OK, I know what a zoom is (and does). My "problem" is that you certainly have the same instrument size, but you change the FoV and "perceived distance" of the landscape. As a photographer, I want default zoom = 50mm (24x36). ;)
boedha68 Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Trackir5 and ready. Or is that too short around the corner? Newest system: AMD 9800X3d, Kingsting 128 GBDDR5, MSI RTX 5090(ready for buying), Corsair 150 Pro, 3xSamsung 970 Pro, Logitech X-56 HOTAS, Pimax Crystal Light (Super is purchased) ASUS 1200 Watt. New system:I9-9900KS, Kingston 128 GB DDR4 3200Mhz, MSI RTX 4090, Corsair H150 Pro RGB, 2xSamsung 970 EVO 2Tb, 2xsamsung 970 EVO 1 TB, Scandisk m2 500 MB, 2 x Crucial 1 Tb, T16000M HOTAS, HP Reverb Professional 2, Corsair 750 Watt. Old system:I7-4770K(OC 4.5Ghz), Kingston 24 GB DDR3 1600 Mhz,MSI RTX 2080(OC 2070 Mhz), 2 * 500 GB SSD, 3,5 TB HDD, 55' Samsung 3d tv, Trackir 5, Logitech HD Cam, T16000M HOTAS. All DCS modules, maps and campaigns:pilotfly:
Azrayen Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 I've a TrackIr. Doesn't change my opinion (nor facts).
sedenion Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 OK, I know what a zoom is (and does). My "problem" is that you certainly have the same instrument size, but you change the FoV and "perceived distance" of the landscape. As a photographer, I want default zoom = 50mm (24x36). ;) 50mm == 45°... It's FAR LESS than the "zoom in" version in the picture above (which be at ~70°, the "zoom out" is maybe at ~90°)...
TomCatMucDe Posted January 14, 2016 Author Posted January 14, 2016 Trackir5 and ready. Or is that too short around the corner? I use TrackIR but it is painful to have to lean every time to read instruments that you are supposed to permanently see. The AoA in close combat for example, I wanna see how full is the gauge to know roughly my AoA and G, reading the number in the HUD when you are busy fighting is not practicle.
TomCatMucDe Posted January 14, 2016 Author Posted January 14, 2016 better with pictures you still cant see the G meter and AoA. Look at my post where you can see Mirage in BMS. You can see both instruments at the same time
sedenion Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 you still cant see the G meter and AoA. Look at my post where you can see Mirage in BMS. You can see both instruments at the same time Because the x_trans is clamped to -0.04... but if we can go more back in seat, AND if the "hud projection" is adjusted to let us see it in that position, it's all ok.
Azrayen Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Sedenion I mentionned 50mm because it's what feels natural i. e. far objects (landscape) don't look too close or too far than they actually are.
TomCatMucDe Posted January 14, 2016 Author Posted January 14, 2016 Sedenion, you cant deny the fact that the console is HUGE and empty. It really does look weird when you see a photo of the real cockpit.
sedenion Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Sedenion I mentionned 50mm because it's what feels natural i. e. far objects (landscape) don't look too close or too far than they actually are. In guessed that... but, 50mm is 45°... set the FOV to 45° in DCS, you will see the result :) At least, a 60-70° default zoom is not bad, and if we set the camera back, with a 60-70° FOV, i think it's ok... the only problem is the HUD projection, which is "croped" when we are too far from the HUD at this time...
sedenion Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Sedenion, you cant deny the fact that the console is HUGE and empty. It really does look weird when you see a photo of the real cockpit. I deny nothing about the console's size, i just say: In real life, your eyes does not exactly work like the 3D maths or a real camera... Setting the virtual camera at the exact same place as the real pilote's eyes does not realy make sens, we can cheat on this.
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