2 questions - Radar question and AI question

[Guest Cali]

GOYA you are a crazy man, but you can be my wingman anytime.

[D-Scythe]

I don't have any future projects installed on my computer. But I do have an F-15 with no IFF, screwed up navigation, screwed up missiles and screwed up TWS mode. I also have SAMs that fire missiles in no particular direction and Strelas that shoot down mavericks. I also have an AWACS that gives me a pop-up group for the same flight 20 times.

 

While it's simply a fact that ED can only focus on the Ka-50 (and I wouldn't have it any other way), I simply can't bring myself to disagree with you :beer:

[enigma6584]

GOYA you are a crazy man, but you can be my wingman anytime.

 

GOYA is just getting impatient. Patience is hard to maintain after a while even if you can see the sun just creeping up over the horizon.

[S77th-GOYA]

Impatient for what?

[ARM505]

...a functioning F15?

[Kula66]

Patience is hard to maintain after a while

 

Patience implies you're going to get what you want someday ... Unfortunately, I don't think we've heard any such thing.

[GGTharos]

Yeah, you have, you're just not listening - or not willing to wait for that long. Either way, you've heard ;)

[Kula66]

Ahhh ... the 'next project'.

[D-Scythe]

Yeah, you have, you're just not listening - or not willing to wait for that long. Either way, you've heard ;)

 

Unless they're porting the F-15 into the "Tank Killers" or "MiG-29 vs. F-16" project, I don't think ED said anything with regards to fixing the Eagle though. From what I understand, both Tank Killers and 29VS16 are stand alone sims that do not feature the Eagle.

 

The F-15 is getting the 120C in LOBS, but the fundamental problems with the Eagle is definitely not getting addressed anytime soon. Speaking for myself ONLY, I'm not expecting the "main" bugs with the F-15 getting fixed, like IFF, working BVRAAMs, track-while-scan, look-down, etc. Maybe ED might surprise us, but each one of these major bugs can actually be passed off as a "feature" (you add IFF, you add AFM, you add measurements/simulation of proper BVRAAMs, you add algos to make the APG keep the PDT within gimbal limits in TWS, etc.).

 

And, as we all know, "features" are mainly the stuff of add-ons, not patches. And LOBS is likely the *last* add-on for LOMAC.

 

In short, best case scenario, one problem gets fixed, as a "feature" in a patch. For the others, well, as I said, unless LOMAC's flyables are being ported into ED new projects, chances are we'd see some pretty detailed and kicka$$ A-10s, Ka-50s and F-16Cs in a few years, but the Eagle is gonna be as is.

 

For the F-15, the sun isn't creeping up on the horizon. Hell, the sun just set in LOMAC V1.02 ;)

[Guest Cali]

Why did they chose to add the heli instead of a nato multirole fighter fighter (F-16,F-18 )again? I know this was disscussed before it has been a while and I have a bad memory.

[ARM505]

Because YET another F-XX sim is yawnsville city.

 

(Dons flame retardent suit, turns on air bottle valve...)

 

Ok, that was an obvious wind-up, but seriously, I like the obscure/historically less covered stuff (and others seem to as well) - I mean, who else is going to do it? And they are Russian, after all. Doesn't America produce any people who can program sims that cover American equipment? Or has America evolved financially into a place that can only produce for consoles, or other higher yielding markets?

 

Just thinking - My favourite sims (I'm using the term to mean something that makes a definate attempt to simulate reality, although nothing can quite do this of course):

 

Tanks/armoured vehicles - Steel Beasts (A lot of Germans/Europeans there, not sure who actually own Esim though)

Aircraft (WW2): IL2 - Russian

(Modern): LOMAC - Russian

(Modern Civil): MSFS (American), which I admit I almost never play anymore, it just seems to lack the feel of IL2 or LOMAC. I do use it for playing around with systems though, ie the LDS 767 or PMDG 744 etc. Perhaps I should note here how keen MS is to try and market the 'fun' aspect of flight sims in there next release, FSX (with 'missions' etc). Perhaps an indication that they feel flightsims are too 'niche', and need to be made more exciting to capture a competitively large audience? Plus, nowdays, EVERYTHING decent for MSFS, from terrain textures to aircraft to scenery, and even different weather modelling is payware.

Infantry (even combined arms!): OFP (Czech?), with Armed Assault on the way.

 

So, we're waiting (and have been for a while now) for Fighterops I guess as the 'American' contender. I'm not knocking America, but I just get confused when a lot of people clamour constantly for American hardware, and question the developement of, for example, the Ka50, from a Russian developer. I do like the idea of viable opposing forces though, my only reason for personally complaining about the F15's current rendition.

 

It should be obvious that all of this is my PERSONAL OPINION, and will obviously be different to everybody else's. Nonetheless, it seems to me that America is no longer able to produce quality sims (but can produce FPS's by the truckload) that have a relatively low sales volume, and sustain the quality product support that these require. I'm happy that others have stepped up to the plate. ED seems to be keen on the Russian market, and it should come as no surprise that they will produce software that focuses on that equipment surely?

[Kula66]

Yeah, you have, you're just not listening - or not willing to wait for that long. Either way, you've heard ;)

 

Ok GGT ... show me where it says the F-15 is going to get fixed - where is the post?

[D-Scythe]

Because YET another F-XX sim is yawnsville city.

 

Name one flight sim in the past decade that has featured either the A-10 or the F-15C. Oh yeah, that's right - none.

 

Actually, if you want the truth, both these aircraft shouldn't even BE considered in the same league as an F/A-18 or F-16. No glass cockpits, no primary FBW, no multi-role.

 

On the other hand, the MiG-29 and the Su-27 have featured very prominently in the past decade of simming - they certainly have recieved FAR more exposure than either the A-10 or the F-15. And, speaking generally of the 'western' LOMAC community, fixing either the A-10 or the F-15 is just a logical way to appeal to western customers. The Su-25T and the Ka-50 are great, and although I love the KA-50 add-on, it would've been awesome to get a working APG-70 radar to boot.

 

However, keep in mind that fixing the F-15C completely cuts both ways for ED. The F-15C/AIM-120 combination would cut the MiG-29A/S and Su-27S to pieces if modelled to its full spec. But right now, it's more or less balanced, with the less than capable AMRAAM, the not-yet complete APG-70 radar, and the R-27ET which is arguably even more effective than AMRAAM in most cases.

[Guest Cali]

ARM505, many people have been asking for a 16 or 18. Why wouldn't you add something that everyone wants? I'm not complaining just wondering...

[Guest Cali]

However, keep in mind that fixing the F-15C completely cuts both ways for ED. The F-15C/AIM-120 combination would cut the MiG-29A/S and Su-27S to pieces if modelled to its full spec. But right now, it's more or less balanced, with the less than capable AMRAAM, the not-yet complete APG-70 radar, and the R-27ET which is arguably even more effective than AMRAAM in most cases.

 

So what if it would, so cripple the 15 to give the Russians jets a chance :music_whistling: They can't take it, why not just take the 120 out of the game completely then. Give us just guns and maybe a stick to throw at the Su's and Mig's. :vertag:

[ARM505]

Perhaps I should have been more specific then - A10 (not that I said it had been done) or F15C, no (F15E yes, although it's quite substantially different, sure) - but the F16 and F18 (both mentioned as repeatedly requested) have been done several times. Did Janes IAF not have an F15C by the way? (Not sure, never owned the game)

 

And Cali, the mere fact that I question producing an F16 or F18 sim, as well as the fact that they're NOT producing them yet should tell you that not 'everyone' (as you said) wants them *just yet*. Sure, if ED had a million programmers beavering away, they'd probably love to do everything. But right now they choose to cater to their chosen market, the Russian audience. Everything else is a bonus.

 

Make no mistake though, I would rather have what is there functioning 100% - so I am on the side of people who want the F15 changed for realities sake, regardless of whether it would "cut the MiG-29A/S and Su-27S to pieces if modelled to its full spec", to quote D-Scythe (I won't attempt to argue that point, it's been done before here, despite not quite agreeing with that generalisation.) But I think they can only do so much with the resources available to them. I know some people think that modelling the Ka50 cuts down on the potential sales - but I respect their decision to do what they feel is important. And we are short heli sims IMHO.

 

And my question still stands regarding American/Western developers. If people (everybody!) wants to see F/A-XX;s modelled, why is there no truely modern sim (barring the not yet released Fighterops) that covers these aircraft?

[Pilotasso]

However, keep in mind that fixing the F-15C completely cuts both ways for ED. The F-15C/AIM-120 combination would cut the MiG-29A/S and Su-27S to pieces if modelled to its full spec. But right now, it's more or less balanced, with the less than capable AMRAAM, the not-yet complete APG-70 radar, and the R-27ET which is arguably even more effective than AMRAAM in most cases.

 

The ET is broken in the oposite way the AMRAAM is. The only reason why Online play hasnt been ruined by now is because the majority of players arent practicing the exploits yet. I give thanks to that but if the situation meanwhile changes I'll start looking elsewhere for my free time.

 

As an example of this I have already given up some hours for model kit miniatures again (wich I sporadicaly return to after years away). Made a rafale model a few days ago, and an F-16B has just been finished. :)

[Guest Cali]

And Cali, the mere fact that I question producing an F16 or F18 sim, as well as the fact that they're NOT producing them yet should tell you that not 'everyone' (as you said) wants them *just yet*. Sure, if ED had a million programmers beavering away, they'd probably love to do everything. But right now they choose to cater to their chosen market, the Russian audience. Everything else is a bonus.

 

how long have you been around these forums? Have you been to the other lock on forums http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=frm&s=400102&f=38610606

Do a search and see how many threads come up saying we want a 16 or 18. The US/NATO has no multirole aircraft and how many does the Russians have? I understand that the game is made by a Russian company.

[S77th-GOYA]

why is there no truely modern sim (barring the not yet released Fighterops) that covers these aircraft?

 

Is there a truly modern combat flight sim other than LOMAC? Can LOMAC be considered truly modern? The addition of an F/A-18 to the current flyables could only be a good thing for LOMAC.

[ARM505]

Yes. I agree. Nonetheless, an F/A-18 is not being added. Thats my point. I have been here a while. I have seen the constant requests for an F/A-18, and the associated carrier ops. Again, despite all this, an F/A-18 is not being added. What I'm saying, is that ED does not have endless resources and the ability to add everything that everybody wants, and that constant requests on the forums do not have influence regarding such major planning decisions. I respect them for sticking to their guns. Plus, I feel that aircraft like that (the F/A-18 and F16 specifically) have been done before in depth (Janes F/A-18, plus some others, F4, F4AF etc), and I welcome the difference involved in learning the Russian concepts and systems.

 

I hope I have made a clear enough point - if not, the fault is my own. In any case, I will give it a rest. (Edit: Or not, as seems to be the case!)

[ARM505]

P.S. Lo and behold! An F15C, in Janes IAF

 

http://www.flightsim.com/review/iaf/f15c130.jpg

 

Now, who said that it hadn't been modelled in the last ten years? Ah, D-Scythe!: "Name one flight sim in the past decade that has featured either the A-10 or the F-15C. Oh yeah, that's right - none."

 

I claim a very small victory :) But yeah, it's never been done in high-fidelity, and it's current iteration in LOMAC leaves something to be desired, I know. I am with you on this one, really. I just understand ED's priorities, and the limitations they face.

 

Is there a truly modern combat flight sim other than LOMAC?

 

Also part of my point - if the desire to see these aircraft modelled is great enough (ie a large enough market), then why have so few Western developers taken up the challenge lately? I asked if the western financial model (or something like that) precludes producing such small, niche sims.

[Kula66]

I think the reason the F-18 is often requested is that it would add balance to the game ... At the moment there is no NATO strike, SEAD or carrier a/c.

 

The fact that it has been done before is because it is what people want to fly! I'm sure ED can improve on Janes/Falcon! The technology has moved on since then.

 

On-line most people do A2A ... I'd much rather have a AFM F-15 and 27 with decent WAFM than a helicopter, but then I guess it would only appeal to the minority of people who frequent these boards. Shame really.

[ARM505]

No, it would appeal to far more people than a Ka50, you're right, not just people who frequent these forums - but then who would make the Ka50? ;) You see, there are plenty of people who want F-XX's, which means that *eventually* somebody will make them (maybe not right now, but it will happen, again and again and again!) But, like I said, rare birds don't get made - I'm glad that one (the Ka50) will now at least see the light of day.

[Stealth_HR]

On-line most people do A2A ... I'd much rather have a AFM F-15 and 27 with decent WAFM than a helicopter, but then I guess it would only appeal to the minority of people who frequent these boards. Shame really.

 

That's one thing that really surprises me - are that many people afraid of being shot down by a Kub or Shilka? Or are that many people afraid to go dogfight in a Frogfoot-T? :P Personally, I can't wait for the Ka-50, I've already studied the 25/25T extensively and know how to survive SAMs one way - I sure as heck won't mind another ground-pounder?

[GGTharos]

The Ka-50 was chosen probably in large part due to its popularity in Russia. That's right, there's a Russian market for this thing.

 

After the Ka-50, we'll be seeing more development of the western side of things for a while.

 

Believe it or not, the Ka-50 already offers the ability to play in a way online that there has never been before, and yes, it -can- be incorporated in play withthe fighters, etc. etc.

 

A coop mission might involve a Ka-50-cum-H-60 being supported in a rescue operation for example, but even more so, a Ka-50 can be a potent and sneaky assailant against enemy airbases or other targets, quietly sneaking in to destroy MED/HIRAD around the target, leaving it open to high-altitude attacks, while the helo's own survivability against SHORAD is relatively good if you do things right.