Help! How to take-off INTO a hover??

[Wavehopper]

You're using exactly the same setup as me. You really need to adjust the curves to around 35 for the X & Y axis on the cyclic.

 

Also try the lightest spring as I found it to be the most responsive.

 

As someone said before you can't just hold the cyclic or collective where it is. If you are doing it right you should be constantly adjusting both. You don't move it much, but you have to constantly counter what the ship is doing.

 

Honestly it's just constant practice, and it's very easy to overthink the problem. Try for a bit, take a coffee break, then come back and try again. You will get there, it's just one of those things that looks simple but really isn't when learning.

 

Frustration will make it harder, so baby steps. Also try setting obstacles (buildings are good) around you with the editor, and move those obstacles closer when you think you're improving.

 

And if you haven't already, read Chickenhawk by Robert Mason. That thing is a tome of useful information.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Wavehopper

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Be aware that curves simply move control sensitivity from the area around the centre of stick deflection to the extremities. This tends to work well for fixed wing aircraft where the stick is kept near centre (unless manouvering). It may not necessarily be helpful for a helo, as the stick is unlikely to be centered when hovering; adding a curve may actually make things more sensitive, not less.

 

Also, if you're finding helicopters twitchy, good! Because they are!

[Bearfoot]

smaller and smaller fields

 

So, putting in some more practice, practice, practice, and ....

 

... getting better!

 

Not perfect. Or even good. And maybe even not OK. Certainly not good enough for government work (i.e. Army).

 

But better.

 

I feel like (a) I'm making progress and (b) more importantly, see *how* it is possible that I can make even more progress.

 

Before, I felt I was getting nowhere.

 

Many helpful things in this thread helped, from the actual technical tips to the exhortations to practice more to the notion that I should not be discouraged when I seemed to be porpoising and oscillating and slipping and sliding all over the place.

 

In fact, I re-read Chickenhawk recently (read it before, of course, but glad I did agai! fantastic book that has only gotten better with age), and the most important flying insight I got from it was when he was trying to hover over the field:

 

"Sir, I was all over the field."

"Don't worry about it, kid. We'll just keep practicing in smaller and smaller fields."

 

THAT was something that really hit home! Don't worry if you are all over the place: just make sure that the "place" gets smaller over time.

 

On the technical stuff: yes, curves helped .... but ONLY in conjunction with trim. As Flamin_Squirrel points out, the curves only control the center part of the range-of-motion, so if your stick is located forward or back from this, holding it there is even more difficult than normal. However, if you trim, then you bring that region of control space under the curve-dampened part of the range-of-motion, and that is very helpful. So I've set an aggressive trim of 35 on both axis as well as rudder.

h.trk

[Bearfoot]

Also regarding Chickenhawk and training ...

 

Mason notes how the instructor controlled cyclic and collective while worked on stabilizing just the yaw with rudder. Then the instructor controlled cyclic and rudder while he worked just the collective. And then the instructor controlled just the collective and rudder while he worked the cyclic. And finally, he got to work with all the controls together.

 

That sort of partitioned control would be great for learning in the sim as well!

[j0nx]

Coming into DCS with hundreds of hours in the dodo in FSX the Huey was a natural for me. The Mi-8 on the other hand is not stable for me and wants to just drop out of the sky when you exit ETL so you really have to be prepared for that. Russian rotors spin opposite to that of American Helos so all control inputs are also reversed. I find the Huey easy to fly and control compared to that thing. The key ingredient for these birds is the controls you use. A good stick and an actual collective mounted to your left along with a good set of pedals will make all the difference. I could not imagine flying these things with a throttle quadrant or dial acting as a collective.

 

When you get good enough as the basics then you'll want to practice low and fast approaches to a stop at hover. Flying 10 feet above the ground and dumping the collective as you pull back on the cyclic to slow forward movement and nudging it with slight collective as you do that to keep your tail from slamming the ground and then anticipating rudder movement to keep from yawing as you come into a hover to set down quick is what you will need to master in order to get your troops on the ground quick and then get out of there.

[Bearfoot]

When you get good enough as the basics then you'll want to practice low and fast approaches to a stop at hover. Flying 10 feet above the ground and dumping the collective as you pull back on the cyclic to slow forward movement and nudging it with slight collective as you do that to keep your tail from slamming the ground and then anticipating rudder movement to keep from yawing as you come into a hover to set down quick is what you will need to master in order to get your troops on the ground quick and then get out of there.

 

Yes, this is definitely the next thing I have to work on.

 

Right now, I can either:

 

(a) come to a nice landing from which I can walk away from ... somewhere on the map, not always within visual distance of where I want to land

(b) precisely put the helicopter down on an exact point .... as a busted/burning wreck

 

 

I typically end up killing all forward speed but then find myself 200-300 feet (or higher!) above ground, and then if I try to set down where I want to go I get into VRS or otherwise overcorrect as I overshoot.

 

Alternatively, if I plan a more angled approach, I find myself picking the wrong approach slope (too short or too long), and/or in combination with having too high a forward speed when I am about the place I want to be. Trying to pull back to correct this results in Bad Things Happening.

 

So, I need to work on: (a) correct approach slopes (b) controlling the craft well enough to coordinate speed/altitude on the slope © controlling the craft properly enough to make corrections to speed/altitude.

 

In fact, the one way I have found that gets me roughly where I want to land in one piece is to go into a steep spiraling/descending bank orbit the spot. It looks crazy, but the steep spiraling bank kills all forward speed and when I am close enough to the ground I just straighten up and flare and dump the collective. Some sliding and bumping and rocking and even some spinning after hitting the ground, and it does not always go well, but often it does!

[Chipwich]

For take-offs, hover, and taxi, IMO setting up the trim before lift and using the radar altimeter are invaluable. For landings, flying the training mission Landing Solo Practice helped me a lot. I repeated it many times trying to stay as close to the 500 fpm decent rate and target airspeed. Once I could do this, I worked on approaches outside of my comfort zone.

 

The next challenge for me was landing and taking off in tight spaces, as are needed for CASEVAC missions. It's one thing to be able to land consistently without wind and with plenty of room, but add a windy approach into a tight meadow while bad guys are shooting at you and you will feel like you are back to step one. When joyriding, look for tight places and shoot an approach. Then add weather. Rinse, repeat.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Chipwich

[Bearfoot]

I should also note that I adopted a different curve regime, following Chuck's guide to the UH-1H:

 

- y-axis saturation: 80%

- curve: +20

 

The reduced y-axis saturation gives me finer control across the entire ROM of the axis, rather than just concentrated in the center. While using an aggressive curve can make for just as fine control in the center, if you end up nudging into the steep part of the curve, everything then jumps, setting up an oscillation of over/under correction from which it takes a long time to recover. Using a reduced saturation is a better approach, as it avoids the crazy jumping that you get into. The overall result is much more even control through the regime, which makes for a MUCH better handling throughout flight. Like an order of magnitude better. Everything feels more natural, and like I'm riding an amped up racehorse instead of a wild bucking bronco.

 

If I do want to reach >80% on the axis, I have to move the cyclic to its max, retrim there, and then keep it pushed forward. But that's rare enough so it is not so much of a hassle.

[Bearfoot]

For take-offs, hover, and taxi, IMO setting up the trim before lift and using the radar altimeter are invaluable. For landings, flying the training mission Landing Solo Practice helped me a lot. I repeated it many times trying to stay as close to the 500 fpm decent rate and target airspeed. Once I could do this, I worked on approaches outside of my comfort zone.

 

The next challenge for me was landing and taking off in tight spaces, as are needed for CASEVAC missions. It's one thing to be able to land consistently without wind and with plenty of room, but add a windy approach into a tight meadow while bad guys are shooting at you and you will feel like you are back to step one. When joyriding, look for tight places and shoot an approach. Then add weather. Rinse, repeat.

 

Thanks! Will definitely put this into the lesson plan.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I typically end up killing all forward speed but then find myself 200-300 feet (or higher!) above ground, and then if I try to set down where I want to go I get into VRS or otherwise overcorrect as I overshoot.

 

Alternatively, if I plan a more angled approach, I find myself picking the wrong approach slope (too short or too long), and/or in combination with having too high a forward speed when I am about the place I want to be. Trying to pull back to correct this results in Bad Things Happening.

 

Make a shallow approach like an aeroplane; it will make things easier. At a few hundred feet, gradually bleed speed off as you approach touchdown. I've attached a track (DCS 1.5) to give an example short flight. It's slightly scruffy, but it should give you the idea.

 

Wind can actually help you, but you've got to know where it's coming from. Land into it so you retain ETL (effective transitional lift) as long as possible and you'll find it so much easier.

 

I would personally advise against anything but neutral trim for takeoff/landing, so you can learn where the stick needs to be for these critical phases of flight, but that's just my opinion.

huey.trk

[Wavehopper]

And at some point you'll need to learn autorotations, which are a bit intimidating at first. The first time you autorotate properly is a great moment.

 

I think there are practice missions available to help.

[Bearfoot]

Make a shallow approach like an aeroplane; it will make things easier. At a few hundred feet, gradually bleed speed off as you approach touchdown. I've attached a track (DCS 1.5) to give an example short flight. It's slightly scruffy, but it should give you the idea.

 

Wind can actually help you, but you've got to know where it's coming from. Land into it so you retain ETL (effective transitional lift) as long as possible and you'll find it so much easier.

 

I would personally advise against anything but neutral trim for takeoff/landing, so you can learn where the stick needs to be for these critical phases of flight, but that's just my opinion.

 

Thanks. Will give this a study!

[Bearfoot]

And at some point you'll need to learn autorotations, which are a bit intimidating at first. The first time you autorotate properly is a great moment.

 

I think there are practice missions available to help.

 

 

Ah yes, the famous autorotation ...

 

That is what I will take on after getting hovering and landings down!

[Chipwich]

 

I would personally advise against anything but neutral trim for takeoff/landing, so you can learn where the stick needs to be for these critical phases of flight, but that's just my opinion.

 

Rock on Flamin_Squirrel. I'm well aware of where the stick needs to be. Just putting it there prior so that the throw is less when I mash the trim button after lift off. Probably a habit from flying fixed wing too, setting takeoff trim. And it sort wants to be right there during taxi and until you begin accerlating for TL.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I did say it was just my opinion.