BoxxMann Demos the HTC Vive

[DerekSpeare]

Hi Friends,

 

The Microsoft Store in the Tampa Bay International Plaza is demoing the HTC Vive. I took this afternoon to make the journey to the mall and see for myself what the Vive offered. As an Oculus DK2 user who has had hundreds of hours and 18+ months of use, I have an informed - and hopefully not jaded - perspective when it comes to VR hardware.

 

The wait wasn't long, and folks can make preorders for the device in the store. The kids there, Samar, Haylee and Asher were great, and all of the MS Store folks are abundantly accommodating. DSD thanks them for welcoming me (and for minimal waiting!).

 

My specific goal for going was to see for myself how the image quality on the Vive compares to my own DK2. I didn't expect to be more than a moment, but once I put on the device I figured I should see what the demo offered. I knew right away the answer to my image quality question.

 

Candidly, I was disappointed. Anyone looking for a leap in image quality far better than the DK2 will feel the same. Unfortunately, the SDE is present and only incrementally "better" than the DK2, and if it's better at all, it's not by much. Be warned, there is SDE. Anyone who is expecting "minimal" SDE will be sorely let down. If the CV1 isn't much better than the Vive, then I will not have as much enthusiasm for the first gen of VR hardware...though I will still use my own CV1 when it comes!

 

So here are my brief observations:

 

SDE: Yes, it's there. Not much better than the DK2. You especially see it when "focusing" on objects on the horizon. It's somewhat better, but I was expecting "much" better. I was disappointed there.

 

Comfort: Maybe I am used the DK2. I found the Vive to be uncomfortable. The DK2 is easier to adjust and the strap fits me better. Possibly I didn't have enough time to get it adjusted properly.

Hand Controllers: I was pleasantly surprised with these! Actually, they are quite cool. I never really thought much of them, but you "see" them in the VR space, and the way you interact with them is very, very well done. You have to see them in VR to really see this.

 

Roomspace: I'm not interested in standing and moving. My focus is on seat VR with racing and flying my only interests. I can see how those who want other games will like it. It's unique, but nothing relevant for my interest.

 

FOV: Since I didn't make a mental note to look for this, I didn't examine it in detail. I didn't notice anything "wow", so I'd guess it to be adequate.

 

Anyhow, these are my own observations. I cannot speak for anyone by myself, but it's not for me. I'd not pay 800 to replace my DK2 with it. That's a no-go.

 

Note that my intention is not to start a battle over the Vive v Oculus. Get what you want, and that's not my business. ANY VR headset (DK2, Vive, CV1) is light years better than NO VR headset. Since I have a perspective on VR and sims, I figured my fair assessment of this one might be of interest to some.

 

And some photos!

 

 

[Vivoune]

Damn it sounds like you tried a Vive pre!

 

Great write Derek, thanks for sharing it with us, very informative and well exposed. I'm not surprised at the comfort comments, it really sounds like they're just still using prototype temporary gear...

 

About SDE and screen quality compared to the DK2 I have to say I'm surprised you experienced them to be quite similar. It seems the poor job HTC did at making the HMD usable and comfy results in headset often being not placed correctly or set up correctly. So it could be the issue. Users report the Vive's designed to sit on the cheek bones and not on the nose like most would naturally put it on.

 

If it's not though and you got the best out of the Vive, then yes it is indeed very concerning that a DK2 is more or less as good apart from a small drop in resolution. I would definitely not shell out that kind of money either. That said maybe the difference between the CV1/Vive and DK2 are more prominent in the sims we use, every bit of resolution helps to get the next apex, brake point or cockpit instruments, I recall Matt Wagner saying about VR concerns on the Polychop Q&A video that the CV1/Vive made reading cockpit MUCH better, yes, in capital letters.

 

I look forward to your CV1 review and comparison. Now that I know you have a CV1 on the way and live in driving distance of a Vive demo, I might regularly remind you to do a comparison when you have the time after you got yourself well acquainted with the CV1. :D

Edited April 23, 2016 by Vivoune

[DerekSpeare]

Damn it sounds like you tried a Vive pre!

 

Great write Derek, thanks for sharing it with us, very informative and well exposed. I'm not surprised at the comfort comments, it really sounds like they're just still using prototype temporary gear...

 

About SDE and screen quality compared to the DK2 I have to say I'm surprised you experienced them to be quite similar. It seems the poor job HTC did at making the HMD usable and comfy results in headset often being not placed correctly or set up correctly. So it could be the issue. Users report the Vive's designed to sit on the cheek bones and not on the nose like most would naturally put it on.

 

If it's not though and you got the best out of the Vive, then yes it is indeed very concerning that a DK2 is more or less as good apart from a small drop in resolution. I would definitely not shell out that kind of money either. That said maybe the difference between the CV1/Vive and DK2 are more prominent in the sims we use, every bit of resolution helps to get the next apex, brake point or cockpit instruments, I recall Matt Wagner saying about VR concerns on the Polychop Q&A video that the CV1/Vive made reading cockpit MUCH better, yes, in capital letters.

 

I look forward to your CV1 review and comparison. Now that I know you have a CV1 on the way and live in driving distance of a Vive demo, I might regularly remind you to do a comparison when you have the time after you got yourself well acquainted with the CV1. :D

 

*salutes*

 

I do plan to do another "BoxxMann's Perspective" write up once my CV1 comes in. Sadly, however, that was pushed to the end of June :(

 

As any VR user knows, SDE is more pronounced and noticeable when looking at objects rendered "on the horizon"; the farther away an object, the easier it is to see the SDE. That was my specific goal today to see that precise situation. Without question there is SDE and it is not "virtually unnoticeable".

 

I did do the best I could at getting it on my face as properly as possible, too. Though no amount of adjusting would fix what I saw, unfortunately. And since I am a SDE snob, it's the most prominent thing I noticed.

 

I have read some reports from several developers who have the CV1 and DK2 who have stated that the CV1 is much better than the DK2. I've also read anecdotal reports that the CV1 has less SDE by much than the Vive.

 

I hadn't thought that I may have been sandbagged with a Pre. :joystick: That's really insightful. If they did that, shame on them. Since I can't confirm it, I can only know it factually if I ever see another Vive again. I won't be buying one, though. I know all I needed now.

 

:pilotfly:

 

NB: I have been really careful to stress that ANY VR is better than NO VR. Whether it's a DK2 or the new ones, anyone who loves flying and racing sims MUST have a VR HMD. There's nothing like it!

 

:thumbup:

[Mt5_Roie]

Great review. I wonder if you tried to front camera at al? The one feature that might be helpful in looking at our cockpit panels. But not sure if it a feature that makes it worth 200 extra dollars.

[Vivoune]

In term of image quality and SDE here's a shot of both HMD's screens

 

 

We can see the different pixel arrangement. I don't know how that translates while it's on and surrounding you. It could be the diagonalisation (is that a word?) on the Oculus helps with SDE. But apart from that they 'seem' quite similar in quality. It is so hard to have a clear picture of the situation, so many conflicting reports. The OR screenshot seem a bit more blurry but I'm pretty sure it's just from the camera movement.

 

The front camera sure opens possibilities, namely reversed augmented reality. But I'd be really surprised if Oculus doesn't come up quickly with an addon camera to clip on the HMD.

[hansangb]

Thanks for the write up. My CV1 won't ship for another month. Argh... At this point, my Vive may show up first.

[DerekSpeare]

I did expect the SDE to be markedly better than the DK2, but that wasn't the case. The graphic above is pretty much what I saw. If the CV1 is somewhat better than the Vive, that leads me to expect that it will be better than the DK2, but not so much better to make the waiting for my cv1 to show up really difficult. I'm so used to my DK2 that I like it!

 

I think the head strap could have been adjusted better, but I didn't want to consume time with messing about with it. I like the "ski goggle" straps on my DK2. The Vive's head strap was hard plastic.

[Vivoune]

I hear you. Many report that even having hours every day to fiddle with it for a week or two now, they still have yet to find the perfect position. Oculus definitely is a more refined product in that aspect.

 

Do you use the DK2 to do missions? Technically the CV1 and Vive are 'only' about 20-25% better in term of resolution but it seems that's enough to have most of the cockpit readable where the DK2 is just a bit short or being usable in a practical manner.

 

Anyway we all knew the resolution would still be too low. Like you said it's still much better than nothing ^^. But I still hope you'll find the difference between the DK2 and the CV1 is worth the money and that your experience with the Vive doesn't reflect the CV1's. the Vive might be more expensive but the CV1 isn't so cheap either that it cannot afford to not deliver compared to the now much more affordable DK2.

 

Here's a thorough recent review I just found from someone owning both HMDs for a few weeks that do comparisons with the DK2 he's used extensively for some time. Talking about his experience between the DK2 and CV1 he says "Like the Vive the display and optics are excellent and a big step up over the DK2. The screendoor is now only the result of subpixels not being illuminated and is basically a non-issue for me now." So hopefully that's good news for you! :)

 

Sad to hear about the OR delivery being pushed back to the end of June. Oculus really dropped the ball logistic-wise.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Vivoune

[DerekSpeare]

If the expected comfort level is not much better than what I experienced, I'd not want it on my head. The DK2 is actually pretty comfortable, and I have used it for many sessions extending an hour.

 

I mainly do free flights in DCS, FSX and P3d with the DK2. I do hot lapping in my driving sims. The DK2 doesn't offer the visual fidelity I'd need for competitive racing. It's close, but not close enough for dogfighting and Iron Hand missions.

 

Do I think the hardcore guys with uber situational awareness could use the DK2 for missions? Yes, and the Vive too.

 

Once my CV1 lands here, then I'll have an entirely informed opinion and perspective. If the visual clarity and SDE is as good as some of the guys who have been reporting real data, then I'll consider my 600 to be well spent. Time will tell!

 

The waiting isn't too much of a big deal. I've waited two decades for real VR! An extra month isn't too bad :)

 

On the matter of the comments in the linked Reddit post:

 

Display and optics are good – Like the rift the display itself and optics are generally very good. The pixels appear to be slightly larger and more visible then the Rift, but it’s miles ahead of the DK2 and I have no issue with the resolution for a gen 1 device. There is no obvious visible space between pixels so any minimal screen door that’s left is only provided by strips of subpixels being illuminated.

This is entirely opposite of what I personally experienced. The SDE was very prominent on the Vive logo right at the beginning of the demo presentation. The logo was white, set far onto the horizon and against a dark background, so any SDE would be instantly noticeable. It was, without question, there. Edited April 24, 2016 by DerekSpeare