Problems with Check Pilot on BFT 09 , Inst appch and Landing

[james h robinson]

During the night instrument sortie BFT09, after the first ILS touch-n-go/missed approach,after the turn to 040 @7000 the check pilot stops issuing instructions and remains silent,and drives us out into the weeds .Occasionally this occurs after the turn to 300 @ 7000. If I attempt to fly the correct route , the FE screams " Terminate" and i hook the ride. This has happened 10-15 times. Any suggestions would be appreciated.Thanks.

[Sabre-TLA]

Sounds like you missed a trigger at WP 6. Try flying directly at the waypoint. There is a trigger zone there that should direct you to WP 7 on a heading of 300.

 

The terminate call is related to the missed trigger (probably because it thinks you are off course).

 

Also update your video drivers as some users have had issues with triggers not working correctly until they updated.

 

You can also compare your flight to this video to see where you deviated:

 

[james h robinson]

Other problems with BFT 09

 

Thank you ,sir ! Your suggestions solved the FE prompts issue. However, now after receiving vector for second ILS, intercepting ILS final appch course, slowing to 150 KIAS, configuring for landing, upon intercepting the glide path, the FE commands me to remain at pattern alt 2500 and hooks me if I attempt to descend. Am I missing another trigger? GeForce 780 driver is latest.

[Sabre-TLA]

Thank you ,sir ! Your suggestions solved the FE prompts issue. However, now after receiving vector for second ILS, intercepting ILS final appch course, slowing to 150 KIAS, configuring for landing, upon intercepting the glide path, the FE commands me to remain at pattern alt 2500 and hooks me if I attempt to descend. Am I missing another trigger? GeForce 780 driver is latest.

 

Make sure you fly to the Initial Approach Fix given to you by the ATC. I think if you turn too early to the runway you will miss the trigger giving you the ok to descend from the pattern altitude. We will check the triggers again and update this post if it's different than I describe.

 

EDIT: I wouldn't descend from the pattern altitude until you get the landing clearance from the ATC. We have a flag set that disables the pattern check on a zone that is 5 nm from the end of the runway (we tried to tie it with the ATC landing clearance). I recommend flying to the IAF, get aligned with the runway using ILS but don't depart the pattern before 5 nm. We may have to adjust that if the game engine has changed the behavior or add a "You are cleared to descend" message when that zone is entered or make the zone bigger.

 

The idea being that there could be aircraft landing or taking off so you should stay in the pattern until cleared by ATC.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Sabre-TLA

[james h robinson]

Thanks again,sir. Your advice was helpful. I have now completed the BFT Campaign and I would like to know where I can download the Maple Flag advanced training missions for the A-10C which I see "Recon Stewart" flying on You-Tube?

[Sabre-TLA]

Thanks again,sir. Your advice was helpful. I have now completed the BFT Campaign and I would like to know where I can download the Maple Flag advanced training missions for the A-10C which I see "Recon Stewart" flying on You-Tube?

 

Congratulations on earning your BAQ.

 

Unfortunately we don't have a specific ETA yet but we hope it will be available from the ED store soon.

[Piroflip]

Hello Sabre,

 

First I'd like to say the basic and advanced qualification missions are awesome. Makes you realize how much work there is to doing it the right way. Now, about mission 09 in Basic...

 

I've also been struggling with this mission. I followed you recommendation and made sure to target and fly as close as possible to the pre-assigned way points and that has helped. Not easy to do with the wind trying to blow you off course. The last thing I've struggled with is getting scrubbed because I was flying too low of the pattern altitude when coming in for the second landing. All I was doing was following the ADI for glide scope but, because you're closer to the field on the second pass it brings you in lower. With the strong winds in this hop I'm thinking the triggers need to be larger or just loosen the requirements in general?

Edited August 3, 2017 by Piroflip

[Sabre-TLA]

We have some updates planned so we will re-investigate those triggers.

 

They haven't changed much since Recon Stewart did his videos so you can compare how you do against his attempt:

 

[Piroflip]

Thanks for the quick response Sabre. I'll check it out and look forward to any updates. Keep up the good work.

[Dustoff74]

OK, here is my feedback for mission #9:

 

Somehow the headings don't take the wind into consideration. You fly the headings, you miss the trigger zones. Just flying the waypoints works great und no complaints from the IP.

Flying the second approach the IP advised me to keep "pattern altitude" (we are not flying a pattern, but a straight in approach, so initial altitude would be more appropriate) until that 5NM lading clearance trigger. Since 2500ft equals roughly 8NM with a 3° glide path that trigger zone should be further out. After that I get a "maintain 120", which I would understand as "maintain 120 KTS". What is meant though is the heading, which doesn't make any sense, after I'm cleared for the approach.

Also I got a "MAINTAIN ANGELS 7" while I was flying exactly at 7000ft. I don't know if that's just a generic call, but it's frustrating as hell. I don't know if that's you Sabre, but while the missions are great, don't expect me to ever buy this guy a beer. I really, really hate him!

[Sabre-TLA]

Thanks for the feedback.  We have replayed all the missions with the updates for the A-10C II so have adjusted many triggers to avoid these incidents you are reporting.  This should be corrected in the next update.

 

The missions played correctly when first designed and you can see various youtube videos showing that.  However, game engine and flight dynamic changes over time have an effect and so we have to make adjustments when issues are known.

 

I'm not aware of any particular issues we had to correct in missions 10 through 12 but if you find any please report them.  If they aren't corrected in the next patch update they will be in the one after that.

[Dustoff74]

12 hours ago, Sabre-TLA said:

The missions played correctly when first designed and you can see various youtube videos showing that.  However, game engine and flight dynamic changes over time have an effect and so we have to make adjustments when issues are known.

 

 

 

Hi Sabre, please don't get me wrong. I'm convinced that all the missions worked flawlessly and I can't imagine what a nightmare it must be to develop for such an always changing environment DCS is.

 

I'm in no way complaining, in fact the opposite is the case. I feel DCS is lacking a lot of training opportunities. You get the airframe specific manuals and a couple of system focused training missions and then you are on your own. Your missions teach how to employ the airframe. So I would love to see you and other more training focused developers thrive!

 

I'm pointing out stuff I see and experience to make your campaigns even better. That's what you get for throwing yourself into a feedback focused pilot community 

If you would prefer feedback via other channels than the forum, please just let me know.

[Sabre-TLA]

Oh it's no problem at all.  Please keep the feedback coming and the forum is fine for reporting.  It helps to alert other players to potential problems before we can fix them.

 

I just didn't want you or others to think that we produce crappy missions because we do work hard to make sure they play properly but every game engine update has a chance to change the behavior.  We don't have the time nor resources to test every mission after every update (we would never get time to work on anything new) so we rely on players like yourself to report issues so we can investigate and hopefully fix it or future proof it so future changes don't break it again.

 

This is a problem for all created missions and campaigns.  Unless the authors are on top of it and keep them updated then they break and become unplayable.

 

With more players joining DCS daily we want their experiences to be positive especially with the DLCs since they are paid content.

 

Please keep the feedback coming, we welcome all if it (good and bad).  If we can fix the issue we will, if we can't we will let ED know.

[tstorey37]

This flight is getting very frustrating!  To me the funnel we have to fly through is too small.  I learned long ago to follow the waypoints, not the heading calls by the IP.  It seems I am unable to follow the IP's directions on the missed approach.  I stay 50 to 100ft above 7k so I don't get terminated.  I stay around 250-260kts, cause I got terminated for being at 270kts.  So for the Nth time today, I got to the 040 turn, at 255kts...terminate, terminate, terminate!  What do you have to do to complete this flight?  I read some where it was said to follow ground speed, but none of the other speed restrictions are so sensitive.

 

I appreciate tight restrictions, but this is ridiculous.  Is it a bug or just VERY tight windows? 

[Sabre-TLA]

Yes the windows were tight given the change in the weather conditions which affected the airspeed.  They should be fixed in the next patch as we did tweak them to make them more generous before triggering a failure. 

[tstorey37]

Thank you Sabre!!!

[Sabre-TLA]

I know this can be frustrating for users but hopefully each change makes it better and less impacting when ED changes something.  Please continue to report issues and we will do our best to get them corrected.

[tstorey37]

Sabre...you have provided a very in depth training scenario for the A-10C II. I completed the basic training campaign in the C. But I wanted to do it again in the II, and I can see where you all have added some new material. I'm very happy, we'll just help you iron out the bugs.

[tstorey37]

Sabre...Finally gave BFT 9 another go since 2.7 dropped and I read you all fixed this mission.  On my missed approach, on turning to 040 at 260kts, mission was terminated for speed.  At the time my HUD speed was reading 264kts. Again if I need to read Ground Speed somewhere just tell me.  But I don't remember having to do anything out of the ordinary when I flew this mission in the A-10C version.  Thanks for your help!!!

[Sabre-TLA]

Ok we will test it again as I was certain we adjusted the triggers to provide a larger range before terminating for speed.  Did this happen in both the practice and qual missions?

[tstorey37]

On 4/27/2021 at 9:09 PM, Sabre-TLA said:

Ok we will test it again as I was certain we adjusted the triggers to provide a larger range before terminating for speed.  Did this happen in both the practice and qual missions?

Sabre- Only in the Qual mission