The damage code is not real.

[Ktulu2]

Zeus was nice enough to confirm that the damage model will be changing in this very thread. No need to post track anymore!!!

[Frostie]

Ok, my points were:

- damage model is a complex thing to do. I think many models suffer from that, and weapon's blast area effect is not enough efficient too. So it's complicated to tell if the fault is on damage model or weapons effect.

- a "hit" doesn't mean anything for the matter we are talking about. We need tracks to assess what distance the missile detonated from the target. Direct hit ≠ proximity fuse

- a "hit" in the tail, or even collision, is not always enough to down a single engine aircraft (see pictures page 1).

- visual effect may not truly replicate damage model. The damage I see in pictures of p1 are light.

- I think many player experienced extensive damages from a R-60 hit (nose cone ripped off, wing torn apart, engine down) despite it being one of the smallest AA missile, 30% lighter than AIM-9 & Magic 2.

- up to now after AIM-120 hit I'm in bad situation. And if not it detonated far behind.

 

So I'm just trying to figure out and gather objective data rather than personal feelings...

 

I have in memory a story from a South African Mirage F1 pilot, he took a hit from MiG 23, probably AA-8 missile. He was able to return home at high speed.

But the landing turned bad...

Each hit is specific case, but a "hit" doesn't always mean catastrophic failure.

 

Razbam has shown damage model, with engine, fuel tanks, electrical systems and so on...

 

I think Pepins's point is that on a scale in DCS the Mirage is affected a lot less by missile damage than any other aircraft.

 

This has nothing to do with how aircraft take damage in the real world but how it is represented in DCS with the Mirage being out of sync with everything else by a large margin.

[jojo]

I tried to put the thing into DCS context, but any comparison have been ruled out.

 

Anyway, everyone gave his point of view, and Zeus moved the cursors as he thought fit. So end of the matter for me.

[Davee]

I will not enter into whatever flame war you have ongoing here.

 

I just want to inform you that we have reviewed the M-2000C damage table vs. the other mods.

 

In general, some areas are in line with the other mods and others were too high (fuselage and control surfaces).

 

We have lowered the HP for the too high areas to values consistent with the other mods.

 

We'll see what happens next. We don't like flying tanks either, if the aircraft was one it was unintentional.

 

Hi Zeus,

In general terms - does the Mirage damage model use "hit boxes" with various pre-set damage results including graphics . . . . . or are spars, hydraulic lines, pneumatics, electronics managed within hit areas such that they trigger various actual and visual damage effects individually?

 

For example, in Cliffs of Dover, skin and sub-components are defined (metal, canvas, electrical etc.) within hit areas and bullet type and energy output (impact or incendiary or both) are calculated to define how much damage a spar takes and that in effect triggers the visual and real damage. Hit enough of the engine support frame with cannon fire and the engine falls off (not with .303's) or hit the engine intake manifold and lose power - fuel tank behind the pilot or in front of his legs also induces different fire results.

 

Just curious.

Thanks

[Zeus67]

Hi Zeus,

In general terms - does the Mirage damage model use "hit boxes" with various pre-set damage results including graphics . . . . . or are spars, hydraulic lines, pneumatics, electronics managed within hit areas such that they trigger various actual and visual damage effects individually?

 

For example, in Cliffs of Dover, skin and sub-components are defined (metal, canvas, electrical etc.) within hit areas and bullet type and energy output (impact or incendiary or both) are calculated to define how much damage a spar takes and that in effect triggers the visual and real damage. Hit enough of the engine support frame with cannon fire and the engine falls off (not with .303's) or hit the engine intake manifold and lose power - fuel tank behind the pilot or in front of his legs also induces different fire results.

 

Just curious.

Thanks

 

I'm the wrong person you can ask that. You should ask ED on that since all we do is create a collision model, which is a very simple 3D model, with all the subsystems in it represented by cylinders and boxes.

 

How it works, well my understanding is that they "detect" the collision with other objects and return a value. This value is subtracted from the HP pool for that subsystem. If HP reaches 0 it is damaged. How damage is handled is our responsibility, but how damage is detected and evaluated is DCS' job.

[pepin1234]

I have in memory a story from a South African Mirage F1 pilot, he took a hit from MiG 23, probably AA-8 missile. He was able to return home at high speed.

But the landing turned bad...

Each hit is specific case, but a "hit" doesn't always mean catastrophic failure.

 

Razbam has shown damage model, with engine, fuel tanks, electrical systems and so on...

 

The Cuban DAAFAR pilot who did this interception said this was a shoot in dogfight. This mean F-1 pilot was aware he was in dogfight with Mig-23, probably not a direct impact because the maneuvers. The missile used was R-60 and the missile hit the nozzles. At the moment of the hit the systems was not extrem damage, but was enough to put lot of systems warnings lights on, putting the Mirage in a very bad condition for landing. This F-1 was out of combat after this dogfight.

 

Was a dogfight so probably not direct hit. You can see the DAAFAR pilot comments in min 5:50

 

Edited July 9, 2016 by pepin1234

[jojo]

I thought it had missed until I heard a dull thud and felt a light bump on the aircraft. I immediately scanned all the gauges but there was not indication of any damage. When I looked up again the Mig flew over the canopy and disappeared behind me as well.

(...)

It was now about five minutes later and halfway home when the first warning light flashed on. EP pump failure.

http://aircraftnut.blogspot.fr/2013/03/saaf-mirage-f1-and-border-conflict-part.html

 

It took 5mn before he noticed any failure warning...

[pepin1234]

http://aircraftnut.blogspot.fr/2013/03/saaf-mirage-f1-and-border-conflict-part.html

 

It took 5mn before he noticed any failure warning...

 

Yes you right. But the most important thing I want you notice this example was a dogfight and probably not a direct hit. This is a diferent situation. The situation I post in the report was a direct hit by ambush tactic. Do you notice the difference?

Edited July 6, 2016 by pepin1234