Tu-22M3 Project: need help

[brianacooper11]

To gather more information for the Tu-22M3 project, I'm going to Russia. I don't speak Russian. I'm taking pictures of military aircraft, and asking very technical questions. Being pushy. "May I get in the cockpit, too? Spaciba, tovarisch?"

 

Would any Moscovite be willing to escort me for a few days in the Moscow region? It would be really nice to have someone translate to the nice officer that I am not a spy, and that I don't like Russian prisons any more than Russians do. It would be sometime during the week of August 7-13, and the big thing is travelling to Monino. I have tried having someone ask the Central Air Force Museum about better-than-outside-pictures access, but he got a strange 'no' that he wasn't sure was final. I would like to try again. I would also like to go to the Tupolev museum, explain the project, and see if they might be able to share any helpful information I don't have yet. Not trying to steal state secrets, just details on a thirty year old example, I can be specific. For a project like this there is never enough information. Anyone's help with any of this would be much appreciated. I'm basically going with no firm offer of information or assistance from anyone, but I'm hoping I might get something by appealing in person. It doesn't hurt to try, and I've been wanting to go to Russia for a long time anyway.

 

Brian

[brianacooper11]

To clarify what I know I am lacking, FYI:

 

- 'Official' Руководство по летной эксплуатации. I have what looks like the unofficial equivalent, but it is barely readable, looks like someone's personal translation, typed, about 25 pages. Probably notes.

-How Orbit-10 computer coordinates the RWR (SPO-15, don't have a fit) with the other electronic warfare and defensive systems.

-RWR display symbology for the weapon systems operator. It is shared with the Tu-95MS, if that helps.

-Little details of АБСУ-145 flight control system. Similar systems on other aircraft are well documented, but I suspect some differences. I am also having to make up many parameters; it would be nice to have real data.

- Radar and bombsight symbology.

- I am lacking enough data to make a good simulation of NK-25 engine. I can model the inlet and ramp dynamics, but data on NK-25 itself is lacking. I have a sense that data on this engine is truly restricted, though I am happy to be proven wrong. I am looking at NK-32 at Poltava for guidance.

- If someone has an equivalent of Конструкция и эксплуатация самолета и двигателя, or complete series Руководство по технической эксплуатации, that would be gold.

 

Some stuff I do have:

 

- Cockpit itself: says a lot. No digital systems to figure out. I will be in the cockpit of Tu-22M3 in Kiev, taking lots of pictures.

- "Практическая аэродинамика Ту-22М3"

- Some of (but incomplete) Руководство по технической эксплуатации

- Yefim Gordon's book

[leutenant]

:mad:Suppose no one ever (if in clear mind) would give you such info even if one had it).

D'you really intend to model a supersonic multimode swing-wing bomber on your own?

Well, I'd like to have much more popcorn on me to watch you do it. You'd better be trying to familiarize yourself with ABSU-154 of Tupolev-154. Not that navigational systems of Backfire and Tu-154 are similar to each other, but anyway it may be considered as the only possible way to imitate Tu-22 navsystem (the others are concerning law violations. Yes, you're right, we're not fond of our prisons at all, so you should avoid sailing perilously to the wind).

Anyway, you are wellcome to Russia, Monino is worth visiting whatsoever. May the Jedi Power help you in your effort!:pilotfly:

P.S. Tu-22M3 is well known in my country as cow-dealer! Why? You don't need to give the benefit from the doubt for here comes the proof!

 

[ame]

[/ame] Edited July 22, 2016 by leutenant

[Necroscope]

Hi Brian,

I'm really like to wish all the best on your way and happy to see so inclined aviation fans as you are but... You 'd like to do laser-scan of the airplane which is actually in service at the moment.

Here is the story of me trying to take photos of Tu-22 (which was de-committed 40 years ago) for paper model design. Hope the facts will speak better than bare words:

It takes me:

- 10-15 calls and ~10 persons to speak

- 3 visits to Monino,

- few rude conversations on site,

- 1 expensive motorcycle completely destroyed and 3 month in a hospital bed due road accident while second trip (not related to aviation but this is the part of the story still)

...just to get hundred of photos outside the Tu-22.

 

Here is my impression on first visit to Monino (in English) http://journals.ru/journals_comments.php?id=3679530

Here is me finally doing research on third trip (you can see crutches in the foreground) http://journals.ru/attach/279/27841/1003970.jpg

 

I'm really wish you luck, but please manage your expectation.

P.S. And drive safe. :)

Edited July 22, 2016 by Necroscope

[brianacooper11]

I know I seem crazy. Leutenant, I will buy you the popcorn! Seriously, it is not just me. Right now two modelers (Russians), me (programming), and there will be at least one more programmer, hopefully a Russian speaker. Aircraft, jet engine simulation is what I have done in the past. I am learning that creating simulations for engineers is different from creating siimulations for gamers, but many of the core physics and headaches are the same. And for what I know least (3D modeling and animation for games), I have Oleg and Dimitry to rely on. I find others who have strengths where I am weak.

 

As to information, I know I am asking for more than is possible, but I would rather ask, and find what little bit I can, than to be silent and miss an opportunity. As to РЛЭ, they are available for older versions of MiG-29 and Su-27, and likewise I am trying to model a late 80's Tu-22M3, not the latest Tu-22M3M. The avionics in -M3 are relatively old, and there is a good aerodynamic study of Tu-22M3 widely available. As I tell the museums and crew members who I am visiting, my intention it so model a somewhat dated version of the bomber, and to respect Russian national security. If I am asked not to photograph or publish something, I won't, though I have been given no restrictions so far, once it is understood I am honest about such things. What official data I cannot obtain, I will reconstruct to the best of my ability.

 

I understand Russians to be romantics, in a general way. May I appeal to that characteristic, and suggest that the prospect of a good Backfire simulation is worth the effort to try it? Privately, I don't doubt eventual success, but even if the total effort does not succeed, I am thrilled with what I have learned, and what I am attempting. And I will just pick another airplane and try that, until I succeed.

 

I apologize for so much English on a Russian board. To simplify my requests in previous posts, let me say this: if you have information about Tu-22 that doesn't make you feel guilty, please share it. If it is unavailable, well, that is that. I move on to next problem.

 

Спасиба,

Brian

Edited July 25, 2016 by brianacooper11

[BillyCrusher]

@brianacooper11

 

May be it will useful for your project visit Ukraine also, because in Poltava's Long Range Aviation Museum are present different variants of Tu-22M3. I believe you will be able get any information there because Tu-22 no longer in use in UA and they aren't classified.

http://mda.poltava.ua/index.php?theme=plains&plain=tu22m3&lang=ru

[brianacooper11]

BillyCrusher,

 

PM sent.

 

Brian