humptydumpty Posted September 25, 2016 Posted September 25, 2016 Hi, I have a Logitech attack 3 ( i know it's not that great but I can't afford anything else) and I have extended the length of the stick by 2 feet , after extending it flying the R22 / AS350 in Xplane is just pure excitement and same is the case with Huey and Mi-8 . But flying any jets in DCS (also Xplane ) the aileron is way too sensitive and the approach and landings are just no more possible for me the aircraft are highly unstable. I have increased the aileron curves to 40 but no go. I can't even roll the aircraft safely else it will go in an accelerated stall . The extension was to remove all the curves but this is not the case. I understand that the helis IRL have very sensitive sticks and no spring and no forces acting on it. So the helis feel real good and they don't have any curves. Please help. Rgds. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Attitude Power Trim Power Attitude Trim Wing Commander SWAC
BitMaster Posted September 25, 2016 Posted September 25, 2016 It's all a matter of training and excercise ;) Look those poor R/C pilots, 1 1/2" control sticks for all input there is ( engine, rudder, aileron, elevator ) and roll rates beyond full scale planes... can be flown super gentle after some time. Joke aside, it sure pays to have an extension, the longer the more precise it gets with easy means tho doing subba dubba fast manouvers work better with short travel control moves ( ala Rally Car gears, R/C Radio etc.. ) Either or, cant have both. Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Sapphire Nitro+ 7800XT - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus XG27ACG QHD 180Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X
humptydumpty Posted September 26, 2016 Author Posted September 26, 2016 @Bitmaster Yeah I need to get accustomed to it. But why such a difference between the helis and the jets , the props seem to be ok too. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Attitude Power Trim Power Attitude Trim Wing Commander SWAC
PiedDroit Posted September 26, 2016 Posted September 26, 2016 (edited) hI'm not sure to understand, you increased the length of the stick and at the same tine increased curve to 40? What happens if curve is set to 0 (do not use negative number or it will get super twitchy in the the center)? Adding stick length will mechanically make it easier for fine manoeuvring, so it's probably a setup issue. If stick travel is too big for you (eg forces you to swing it too much), adjust "Saturation X" instead (default is 100,try a smaller value like 70). (see this thread: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=164669) Edited September 26, 2016 by PiedDroit X not Y
humptydumpty Posted September 26, 2016 Author Posted September 26, 2016 hI'm not sure to understand, you increased the length of the stick and at the same tine increased curve to 40? What happens if curve is set to 0 (do not use negative number or it will get super twitchy in the the center)? Adding stick length will mechanically make it easier for fine manoeuvring, so it's probably a setup issue. If stick travel is too big for you (eg forces you to swing it too much), adjust "Saturation X" instead (default is 100,try a smaller value like 70). (see this thread: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=164669) Hi, Yep length of the stick has been increased by 2 ft. , if I use 0 curves I just can't handle the aircraft at least on the roll just too sensitive and it gets worst when I am on approach speeds or landing. I will try the Saturation Method for the X. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Attitude Power Trim Power Attitude Trim Wing Commander SWAC
PiedDroit Posted September 26, 2016 Posted September 26, 2016 (edited) Hi, Yep length of the stick has been increased by 2 ft. , if I use 0 curves I just can't handle the aircraft at least on the roll just too sensitive and it gets worst when I am on approach speeds or landing. I will try the Saturation Method for the X. That is strange, increasing length should have opposite effect. Maybe something else is happening, when you move the stick, is it having a weird response (jumpy) ? Can you post a screenshot of the axis tuning applet for roll axis? To make it clear, is the aircraft rolling too fast or too slowly when you apply roll input? I just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing :D Edited September 26, 2016 by PiedDroit
rrohde Posted September 26, 2016 Posted September 26, 2016 My extended Mamba is too precise/sensitive around the center to *not* have a curve. So even though it's a 20cm extension, I still use a 25 curve across the board; even more for the Gazelle. :) PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate VKBcontrollers.com
Cibit Posted September 26, 2016 Posted September 26, 2016 Good point, I find it difficult to keep the huey tracking straight because it is too sensitive in the X axis i5 8600k@5.2Ghz, Asus Prime A Z370, 32Gb DDR4 3000, GTX1080 SC, Oculus Rift CV1, Modded TM Warthog Modded X52 Collective, Jetseat, W10 Pro 64 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Adding JTAC Guide //My Vid's//229th AHB
PiedDroit Posted September 26, 2016 Posted September 26, 2016 I understand for the choppers but here the issue is for fixed wing aircraft. Any stick, especially with an extension, should be OK to fly a fixed wing in DCS. Is it possible that the OP has a duplicate input?
humptydumpty Posted September 27, 2016 Author Posted September 27, 2016 Yep it's for fixed wingz the chop chop are amazing to fly in DCS / Xplane after the stick extension. @PiedDroit Yes the problem only lies on the roll , the pitch seems fine. I still haven't tried the Saturation thing will do so tonight Don't have the Gazelle but the R22 is also highly sensitive so I fly that in Xplane. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Attitude Power Trim Power Attitude Trim Wing Commander SWAC
BitMaster Posted September 27, 2016 Posted September 27, 2016 This is contrary to what should happen. Double check aileron curve and saturation. Something seems to boost your aileron input as if you had a progressive curve. Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Sapphire Nitro+ 7800XT - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus XG27ACG QHD 180Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X
humptydumpty Posted September 27, 2016 Author Posted September 27, 2016 I don't what is happening, this is a brand new stick but purchased it a few days back and noticed that left aileron jumps i.e it's too sensitive and now I can't return this for warranty as I have already modded it. But I have my doubts it is due to that, because it has happens on the right as well left aileron. I will check further and see if something is interfering. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Attitude Power Trim Power Attitude Trim Wing Commander SWAC
PiedDroit Posted October 2, 2016 Posted October 2, 2016 Can you post a picture of your settings in the axis tune applet? We could see if there is a wrong setting. After that, check in your axis commands section in controls that "roll" axis only has one controller assigned to it. Next step is to validate the axis health: still using the axis tune applet, move your stick smoothly from one side to another and note how the input (on the axis tune graph) behaves: is it smooth? is it going to full range? Is it doing the same thing as the physical stick? Maybe the stick just needs calibration.
humptydumpty Posted October 2, 2016 Author Posted October 2, 2016 Can you post a picture of your settings in the axis tune applet? We could see if there is a wrong setting. After that, check in your axis commands section in controls that "roll" axis only has one controller assigned to it. Next step is to validate the axis health: still using the axis tune applet, move your stick smoothly from one side to another and note how the input (on the axis tune graph) behaves: is it smooth? is it going to full range? Is it doing the same thing as the physical stick? Maybe the stick just needs calibration. Which axis tune applet ? do you mean the controller setup in DCS ? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Attitude Power Trim Power Attitude Trim Wing Commander SWAC
PiedDroit Posted October 2, 2016 Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) Which axis tune applet ? do you mean the controller setup in DCS ? Yes, exactly, the one with a graph that represents the curve. P.S.: I really think it a setup only issue, I believe your stick is fine as you mention that choppers are OK to fly in DCS. Edited October 2, 2016 by PiedDroit
humptydumpty Posted October 3, 2016 Author Posted October 3, 2016 Yes, exactly, the one with a graph that represents the curve. P.S.: I really think it a setup only issue, I believe your stick is fine as you mention that choppers are OK to fly in DCS. I checked under the tune applet and it was correctly centered. tested the deflection and it was going all the way. But the left roll axis is jumping very quickly and I checked and it's an issue with the stick. Though it's very much flyable. I can't replace it under warranty now as it has been modded so guess I will have to stay with it. Now coming back to the sensitivity I had to push the roll curves upto 40 for all fixed wings. But now the approach and landing is just not controllable it twitches on the roll very badly , though I could land the Flanker pretty well but it still had some twitch. The other fixed wings really go crazy on the roll once I am at the landing speed. Surely don't understand what is happening. I thought extending the stick will do away with the curves but it's the opposite I had to infact increase the curves. :( Maybe I am missing something or have got completely confused. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Attitude Power Trim Power Attitude Trim Wing Commander SWAC
PiedDroit Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) Maybe try with a center deadzone instead of curve, if your stick has a jumpy output (if that jumpy output is in the center). Anyway, with all the details you gave, I would guess the issue is simply too low approach speed. Which means that you get assymetric wing stall, which leads to very quick roll :smartass: If you're fine with choppers, there is zero reason why you wouldn't be able to use the stick with fixed wing. Also you said props were OK too (if I remember). So maybe try a higher approach speed (put curve back to 0)? PS: given your sig picture, if the jet you're talking about is MiG-21 then you REALLY need to watch your speed with this thing (and also throttle, to avoid losing high lift systems) :D Edited October 3, 2016 by PiedDroit
humptydumpty Posted October 3, 2016 Author Posted October 3, 2016 Maybe try with a center deadzone instead of curve, if your stick has a jumpy output (if that jumpy output is in the center). Anyway, with all the details you gave, I would guess the issue is simply too low approach speed. Which means that you get assymetric wing stall, which leads to very quick roll :smartass: If you're fine with choppers, there is zero reason why you wouldn't be able to use the stick with fixed wing. Also you said props were OK too (if I remember). So maybe try a higher approach speed (put curve back to 0)? Awright I will try the deadzone once I reach in a while. I really didn't want the deadzone. Well I keep a 400 km/h approach speed for the 21 and the touchdown is around 320 but it is not possible to land her. Hmm yes the props were OK but I check again later 2nite. Will get back with the results [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Attitude Power Trim Power Attitude Trim Wing Commander SWAC
PiedDroit Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) Awright I will try the deadzone once I reach in a while. I really didn't want the deadzone. Well I keep a 400 km/h approach speed for the 21 and the touchdown is around 320 but it is not possible to land her. Hmm yes the props were OK but I check again later 2nite. Will get back with the results Make sure you don't throttle down below LND power until touchdown, otherwise blown flaps cease to work and you lose a lot of lift. Since flying around seem ok for you and only landing is an issue, I'm confident your stick is not the issue at all. Again, if it's ok for chopper you shouldn't need the deadzone I think (I just mentioned it because you said the stick had a little issue on left, but if this is not bothersome then forget about it) . Read MiG-21 forum for landing tips and redo the trainings ;) P. S. : post a track maybe Edited October 3, 2016 by PiedDroit
humptydumpty Posted October 3, 2016 Author Posted October 3, 2016 Make sure you don't throttle down below LND power until touchdown, otherwise blown flaps cease to work and you lose a lot of lift. Since flying around seem ok for you and only landing is an issue, I'm confident your stick is not the issue at all. Again, if it's ok for chopper you shouldn't need the deadzone I think (I just mentioned it because you said the stick had a little issue on left, but if this is not bothersome then forget about it) . Read MiG-21 forum for landing tips and redo the trainings ;) P. S. : post a track maybe Got home and the first thing I did after a quick dinner was fire up DCS and set the curves to 0 and a deadzone of 5 for the roll and flew the Mig21 OH WOW landing is pure joy now. I can approach a carrier too for a touch n go of course I do fall of the end of the deck. Will try the other aircrafts with the same settings. Thanks I was so confused as to what happening. Thanks again. I will revert back after checking the other aircrafts. Yes helis are perfect in DCS / Xplane. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Attitude Power Trim Power Attitude Trim Wing Commander SWAC
PiedDroit Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 Got home and the first thing I did after a quick dinner was fire up DCS and set the curves to 0 and a deadzone of 5 for the roll and flew the Mig21 OH WOW landing is pure joy now. I can approach a carrier too for a touch n go of course I do fall of the end of the deck. Will try the other aircrafts with the same settings. Thanks I was so confused as to what happening. Thanks again. I will revert back after checking the other aircrafts. Yes helis are perfect in DCS / Xplane. Glad you finally worked it out :thumbup: It was indeed confusing :D
humptydumpty Posted October 3, 2016 Author Posted October 3, 2016 Glad you finally worked it out :thumbup: It was indeed confusing :D I find the flanker still twitchy , not tried other than the Mig21 and the Flanker. Will increase the deadzone [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Attitude Power Trim Power Attitude Trim Wing Commander SWAC
humptydumpty Posted October 15, 2016 Author Posted October 15, 2016 I am very confused. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Attitude Power Trim Power Attitude Trim Wing Commander SWAC
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