25mpu and kh29t

[BinaryMan]

The performance for both the 25mpu and kh29t are way less than what the launch authorization for them are. This causes both missiles to not hit their target even within the authorized launch range. Furthermore, it appears to me that the missiles are not taking the appropriate glide slope; instead taking an overly shallow one and trying to compensate by attempting to pitch up when close to the target.

 

25 MPU: Won't hit on most causes unless closer than 25 km or have a ridiculous amount of vertical height on the target. When launching from a low altitude it requires usually <22 km from target.

 

Kh29t: Won't hit at max range unless launched from high altitude. hits usually begin at 9 - 9.5 km however those are close to missing too.

 

Vihkrs are not effected. I am unsure if other missiles are effected.

[BinaryMan]

I initially discovered this because I was missing with a lot of 25mpus in blue flag and wondered if I was doing something wrong.

[Planemaster3d]

I can't even fire the KH-29T, never gives me the launch authorization. I go closer and closer until I crash into it. Still no LA

[amazingme]

Same with Kh25MPU.. I've never succeeded in launching one.. :/

[Kozmyk]

Current info (unofficial) is that the 25MPU got given an A2A flight model in 1.5.5 (or maybe earlier).

1.5.5 Release Version

Edited November 28, 2016 by Kozmyk

[esb77]

I threw together a quick test mission for the Kh-25MPU and the Kh-29T.

 

Targets were a single OSA for the MPU, a column of M1A2 Abrams MBTs and a tanker ship for the Kh-29T.

 

 

Kh-25MPUs I had no problems with. No changes as far as I can tell since 1.2.4? when the missile aerodynamic models changed resulting in much shorter (and in most cases more realistic) effective ranges. Remember, a max range launch will only hit under very unusual circumstances. Effective range is usually a great deal less than max range. Accuracy left something to be desired, but in the past my experience has been that 2-4 MPUs fired per kill is not unusual. They may have been changed, but there wasn't enough difference for me to be sure if they changed or not.

 

 

Kh-29T appears to have undergone a change in target acquisition. On the tanks the Shkval would lock the tank at ranges of up to about 12 km, and at 11 to 9 km the cockpit voice system would give launch authorization, the HUD would give launch authorization at 9 to 7 km, however the missile would not fire. When using launch override after the voice and HUD range tape indicated a valid target lock, the missile would fire, however it would not guide to a moving target.

 

Definitely a bit odd to get two systems telling you that you have valid launch parameters, but not being able to launch successfully. However, the voice system and HUD are both aircraft systems, and for a fire and forget missile what counts is whether or not the missile's guidance system has a good lock. Not sure how the Su-25T deals with Shkval target locks vs. munition guidance system target locks when dealing with fire and forget munitions.

 

 

When targeting a stationary tanker ship with the targeting box set to 60m, a valid target lock was achieved at about 9.5 km and the Kh-29 launched and guided properly.

 

It's worth noting that the Kh-29 is designed primarily for large and stationary targets, and in some past versions of DCS it has been difficult/impossible to get it to guide on moving vehicular targets. This seems to be a reversion to behavior similar to those versions.

 

 

 

I did some further testing with the Kh-29T. With a stationary tank as a target on a high contrast background (Sochi-Adler aircraft parking area), The Kh-29 locked at about 10 km, and fired at about 9.3 km guiding successfully to target.

 

 

It would appear that the guidance has been changed to be more realistic for older (1970s - 1980s era) TV guided missiles. They have a reputation for difficulty with guiding on low contrast targets and/or locking on high contrast non-target objects (for instance locking on a bush or boulder instead of the APC the pilot wants to destroy).

[Kozmyk]

My testing in 1.5.5 Release Version showed definite deficiency in the 25MPU.

Launches both from low and high altitude and inside a 20km range.

In addition 2 SEAD Tutorial missions couldn't be completed whereas they could before.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Kozmyk

[BinaryMan]

I have had no problems with getting the 29t to lock on and authorize firing.

 

I'm fine if they have changed the missiles performance of the 25mpus and 29T. but if they do they have to update the range launch cues as well. It makes no sense from a design stand point, for combat aircraft (or someone making a game); to have launch cues be accurate for all but 2 weapons. If the 25mpus can't perform in most conditions at their authorized range it needs to be decreased; same for the 29Ts