SP Missions challange

[metzger]

Hello,

 

I was wondering are most of the SP missions realisticly difficult ?

 

Most of the SP missions/campaigns I hardly believe that someone can accomplish from his firts attempt only with the intel from the briefing. Most of the time you have to do some rambo missions killing everyone with one shot with limited missiles and fuel with useless wingman and opponents with god eyes seeing everything everywhere.

 

For instance, I m doing now black shark deployment campaign and untill mission 7 missions were realy nice and fairly easy, I did not have to replay them to acomplish them.

But after that things have changed.

Some of the missions you have to kill some enemies in the city but there it is quite imposible to spot anything if it is behind a tree.. in DCS a tank can hide behind a tree ver well :)

After 2-3 attemts it is easy when you know how to handle the shity targets but this kills the immersion and the rewarding for completing the mission.

And the wingman is more or less useless most of the time. When I order him to attack instead of staying in distance and shoot some vikhrs he jumps on rambo runs and get shot or at some point he just refuses to engage (I thing if he has less than 1/3 fuel tank which in some missions for example 10 makes him completely useless).

 

Prety much the same goes for single missions and campaigns of su25t, su27, or most of my single player expirience is like that. Have to repeat a mission to complete it no matter how effort I put on briefing and planning.

 

I know I need a lot more practice but still if this is the case in the reality, I barely thing there will be many survived combat pilots :)

[NeilWillis]

I'd say that some real world missions are just as ineffectively planned, so crews go into it virtually blind to the location and actual strength of enemy forces. I also suspect, as you say, that some of the missions in the game are deliberately very difficult. It has a lot to do with making the missions a challenge - after all without a challenge, things would soon get very boring.

 

As for real world deployments, I think it is a case of dealing with whatever is thrown your way. Depending on the intensity of the situation, you could find yourself in totally unwinnable situations, and yet still have to go ahead and fly - the concept of a sacrifice for the greater good is definitely not new after all.

 

You don't have to look back very far in history to see that aircrews have had utterly impossible odds, and still flown and fought effectively - just take a look at the survival odds for WW2 bomber crews for example.

 

So, really, there is no limit to difficulty, and no limit to the odds stacked against success either. It just depends upon what exactly is at stake.

[metzger]

Thank you for the reply, good point you are wirght about the reality situations. In the end you fly there do your best and whatever happens.

May be the frustration come from the stupid situations which the game puts you and not the mission itself, like you see the mission pretty simple, fly there kill everyone in the city and thats it, the greatest threds are just zu's and manpads, you will send the wingman to kill some.. simple and easy. Then you fly to the ingress 1 hour endig up your wingman refuses to enage due to unknown reason and the mission failed due to low fuel and weapons with 17 ground kills and 0 by the wingman he just fly with you for company :)

 

edit: As for the challange, well probably you are right but I thing that repeating the same mission is boring also. It becomes not a sim but a game where you just go trough a level until you pass it. I know if I repeat the mission in the end I will complete it but not because I become better pilot but just cause I remebered the postitios of the treads, I know the surprises etc..

Edited November 1, 2016 by metzger

[JLX]

I have to agree that very often missions require several attempts to complete. The repetition removes the element of surprise/discovery and breaks immersion for me as well. Sometimes it feels more like solving a puzzle or memorizing moves in a platformer so you can proceed to the next level.

 

I don't believe this is overly connected to whether a mission is "realistically" difficult or not, but more about the extra coding required (and often not present) to make it more accommodating if a player doesn't proceed the way the designer planned.

 

Building triggers/events for when players wander off-script takes a lot of extra work. All for mechanics that may never be used, or even seen, if things go as planned. However, as metzger pointed out, there are plenty of things like poor wingman AI or DCS spotting issues which could really use some extra consideration.

 

In general, I'd love to see more robust mission design with contingencies in place like:

• Voiceovers if you're off script/target
  
• Extra help (smoke/coords/tracers/etc.) to avoid having to use labels/F10/etc. to spot targets
  
• Forward FARP/etc. to optionally refuel/rearm/repair so you can recover from a bad encounter rather than having to restart.
  
• Perhaps fallback ways to complete an objective (e.g. Ideally wipe out convoy but can fallback to destroying a bridge to stop their progress instead)
  
• etc.
  

 

When thinking about these things, I acknowledge it can be challenging to anticipate how a mission may fail or how difficult it will be on the first try when it seems so obvious to the designer.

 

The effort required to implement these things does take a lot of extra work but I think it would really enhance the overall experience.

 

Just my 2¢ as usual.

Edited November 1, 2016 by JLX
grammer

[metzger]

"Sometimes it feels more like solving a puzzle or memorizing moves in a platformer so you can proceed to the next level." - On spot, this is what I meant.

 

The same mission(mission 10 from deployment camp.) 2nd attempt I tried to land on the closest FARP to refuel but... ground crew says unable to comply, they only rearm me but whats the point when I have no fuel... :)

[emolina]

I think the difference in the difficulty in some campaigns and in reality is that if a real-life crew gets a difficult job they have the option to fail.

 

The next day will be different.

[ESAc_matador]

I

In general, I'd love to see more robust mission design with contingencies in place like:

 

[*]Extra help (smoke/coords/tracers/etc.) to avoid having to use labels/F10/etc. to spot targets

 

This is not a problem anymore... Check the script I made C4ISR and CAS... Lasing, smoke, ilkum, report of enemy units, ammount and type... Everything on demand through F10.

 

The problem i see in most missions is that there are a storyline. So.... It is not a simulation.

 

I use plenty of teleporttozone... That makes you be always tense... You dont know whetr enemies are.

 

I put random enemy interception. You never know when enemy aircrafta are coming... Or if they are coming at all.

 

And most important. The mission needs a bigger goal. For example.. That troops needs to get there and you give a sandbox. Missions flown will be similar but never the same. Some times the AAA is between buildings, and sometimes they are more in the open... Sometimes there are ground reinforces, sometimes not.

[metzger]

I think the difference in the difficulty in some campaigns and in reality is that if a real-life crew gets a difficult job they have the option to fail.

 

The next day will be different.

I don't mind to fail a mission or to have it partialy completed if I make a mistake misjudgement or just lack of skill.

But you barely can have an achievable mission from first atempt in any campaign, which makes you have 20-30% succesion in the campaign or edit logbook.lua and play it like a platformer.

I dont like also the missions to get progresively harder, there is nothing wrong to have simple mission in the middle of the campaign. Some missions may add more challange and you can partialy complete them, some can be easy and simple.. that's live :) some might be perfectly planned some may ha e some surprises.

I guess you get my point :)

 

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