Low level "loft attack", possible?

[Kusch]

Is it possible to attack the low level using a method, "loft attack" (GBU-12 and JTAC)?

[zaelu]

Technically the INS bombing should do this.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2841863&postcount=1

[TomCatMucDe]

yes it is possible and I did it with the Scandinavian Squadron... However we tried it with an A10 doing buddy laying for us. It worked like a charm, we lofted the bombs 10 km away from the target, i am sure we can do even further. We did it without INS, just simple visual CCRP

[ZHeN]

We did it without INS, just simple visual CCRP

how did you get a bombing solution then ?

[Kusch]

I mean something like this, but with the cooperation JTAC:

 

[TomCatMucDe]

how did you get a bombing solution then ?

 

CCRP doesnt need necessary need INS precision bombing. You can simply see a target, with the TAS you can designate it and fly towards it and you will see the solution cue. I did the same but at very low level flight. 12km before the target I pop up and and pitch up really steep, you will see the solution cue. It is not very accurate, but accurate enough to pick the laser spot.

[ZHeN]

CCRP doesnt need necessary need INS precision bombing. You can simply see a target, with the TAS you can designate it and fly towards it and you will see the solution cue. I did the same but at very low level flight. 12km before the target I pop up and and pitch up really steep, you will see the solution cue. It is not very accurate, but accurate enough to pick the laser spot.

that's what I'm talking about - that pop up

might cost you life

[zaelu]

I mean something like this, but with the cooperation JTAC:

 

 

 

Yes, theoretically.

 

1. With INS you set the offset point from one waypoint as the target. After the preparations you come low towards the target and follow the cues on the HUD. When close you pull up keeping the trigger pressed. The system makes all the calculations and somewhere at somepoint when you climb it will release.

2. With CCRP is the same but you go and mark the target first with your TAS diamond reticule then come low, follow the HUD cues... pull up... squeeze... system will release automatically.

3. With JTAC laser should work almost the same. Follow the 9line. Mark the target with the HUD diamond, call for lase, come low... pull, squeeze, system will release... bomb will pick the lasing and... boom!

 

Theoretically, I didn't tried yet... I'm still trying to perfect the INS bombing first :) .

[TomCatMucDe]

that's what I'm talking about - that pop up

my cost you life

 

you pop farther than 10km, the solution will come quickly, as soon as the bomb is released you turn back in the dive, it is quite safe. It will be standard bombing with the Viggen :)

[ZHeN]

if you're not using INS it will take much more time for you to locate the target with your eyes from distance ~20km

if you use INS precision bombing, you won't have to pop up at all, just update INS at the IP

if you use simple INS navigation instead of INS precision bombing, during your quick pop up you can put a CCRP diamond quickly on that waypoint cross, that's provided by INS

[TomCatMucDe]

for sure with INS bombing it is easier, I am not sure if it allows you really to loft the bomb from further away, we dont know the max distance of lofting such heavy bombs.

how dont you have to pop up at all? You need to pop up to loft the bomb, not to find the target. you dont need to find and designate the target with your radat, the bomb will follow the laser spot, a every rough designation suffices.

[ZHeN]

I mean you wouldn't have to pop up to put a mark on the ground in order to receive a CCRP bombing solution

[Sim Flyer]

That is true, INS pereferable for a pre planned target when you want to do a pop up attack but if you are surprised by a sam site then the option we used with the normal CCRP works fine aswell.

 

Although without the laser the GBU is not very accurate, have heard that the normal MK82's are more accurate.

 

Edit: When we did the pop up attack with the GBU12 i could barely see the airfield but since it will be lased in then your lock with the radar doesnt have to be very accurate and then you can designate with the radar outside threat range of sam sites.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Sim Flyer

[TomCatMucDe]

I mean you wouldn't have to pop up to put a mark on the ground in order to receive a CCRP bombing solution

 

and I am trying to say that the pop us is not needed for designating the target but only for lofting the bomb. you can designate the target area at low level straight flying.

[Whisper]

Well, if you have a lase on target, it means that you have a FAC that should be able to provide you with everything needed to set up an INS attack, in theory.

In practice in game, if said lase is AI, that's another story :)

[TomCatMucDe]

Yes, theoretically.

 

1. With INS you set the offset point from one waypoint as the target. After the preparations you come low towards the target and follow the cues on the HUD. When close you pull up keeping the trigger pressed. The system makes all the calculations and somewhere at somepoint when you climb it will release.

2. With CCRP is the same but you go and mark the target first with your TAS diamond reticule then come low, follow the HUD cues... pull up... squeeze... system will release automatically.

3. With JTAC laser should work almost the same. Follow the 9line. Mark the target with the HUD diamond, call for lase, come low... pull, squeeze, system will release... bomb will pick the lasing and... boom!

 

Theoretically, I didn't tried yet... I'm still trying to perfect the INS bombing first :) .

 

i did exactly this, without entering any INS target and it works.

 

In the test I did:

 

1. fly straight and low

2. designate the area without popping up

3. when close enough, pop up to loft the bomb

3. after release turn back and dive.

 

I will try to record a video tonight and show you what I meam :)

[Whisper]

It works, but the safest way is probably using INS and that would be what is used IRL, wouldn't it?

[Kusch]

British Harrier Gr.3 used this tactic in Falklands War in 1982. Paveways were used in the Falklands on several occasions - all designated by a JTAC.

 

https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1982/1982%20-%202627.PDF

 

...Harrier carrying two bombs

approached from the south-

west at 500ft, 550kt,

concealed from Tumbledown

by the bulk of Mount Harriet.

At the initial point, a

distinctive ground feature,

the pilot began his count-

down to the 3g pull-up. At 30°

nose-up a single Paveway

bomb was released to climb

over Mount Harriet, hopefully

to acquire the marked target.

The Harrier then turned

north-west, without ever

seeing Tumbledown...

Edited November 22, 2016 by Kusch

[QuiGon]

British Harrier Gr.3 used this tactic in Falklands War in 1982. Paveways were used in the Falklands on several occasions - all designated by a JTAC.

 

https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1982/1982%20-%202627.PDF

 

Thanks, this was briefly mentioned in Sharkey Wards book Sea Harrier Over the Falklands, but not as detailed as here, because flying the RN Sea Harrier, he was not involved in those LGB attacks by the RAF GR.3 Harriers.

Interesting read :thumbup: