How to update old mission from first Ka-50 to DCS World?

[eV1Te]

I used to play Ka-50 a lot when it was new, I also made a few missions, some were quite popular here on the forum.

 

I would now like to replay some of these mission, maybe with different aircrafts etc.

 

But when I open the missions in the editor a lot of units are completely missing, making them unplayable. Do I need to install the original Ka-50 game and resave it as a newer version in some way or is it impossible to update old missions to DCS 1.5?

 

Thanks

[cthulhu68]

Sometimes opening and resaving older missions in ME fixes issues but other things get broke from updates.

[MadDog-IC]

I used to play Ka-50 a lot when it was new, I also made a few missions, some were quite popular here on the forum.

 

I would now like to replay some of these mission, maybe with different aircrafts etc.

 

But when I open the missions in the editor a lot of units are completely missing, making them unplayable. Do I need to install the original Ka-50 game and resave it as a newer version in some way or is it impossible to update old missions to DCS 1.5?

 

Thanks

 

I have done conversions before, and it is not impossible, but can be a lot of work, not for the faint hearted ;-).

 

if you are talking blackshark 1 missions, I would convert them to blackshark 2 format using the stand alone version 1.1.1.1 first, checking for problems such as aircraft roles, etc as there was a lot that had changed between those versions (When you try to resave missions you usually get several error message and have to address them before it will even resave), and then maybe load and resave using the newer DCS world versions v1.216 and / or v1.55.

 

Sticking with v1.216 keeps the same mission file format, with v1.5x they changed the mission file layout so isn't backwards compatible anymore with previous versions.

 

Cheers, Ian.

[BaD CrC]

Wow. Good luck with that! One patch is sometimes enough to break the entire mission, so I can't imagine going from BS1 to BS2!

[eV1Te]

Thanks for the fast replies, it looks like I will not be able to revive my old missions after all...

 

I hope compatibility is improved in future versions of DCS, breaking missions with newer versions is the biggest flaw of DCS in my opinion.

 

After your comments I lost all motivation to start making missions for the community again, since they will probably become obsolete in the next version anyway.

 

Previously I made mods and maps for other games, such as Half-life, and they are still playable 10 years later...

[MadDog-IC]

Thanks for the fast replies, it looks like I will not be able to revive my old missions after all...

 

I hope compatibility is improved in future versions of DCS, breaking missions with newer versions is the biggest flaw of DCS in my opinion.

 

After your comments I lost all motivation to start making missions for the community again, since they will probably become obsolete in the next version anyway.

 

Previously I made mods and maps for other games, such as Half-life, and they are still playable 10 years later...

 

Very sad to hear that you have been put off by our comments, but it is totally understandable, there have been a many good mission designers come and go in the ED forums for the very same reasons. I for one have large respect for these people for their time, passion and commitment they give to the hobby of ours.

 

Unfortunately this is the price we pay for having new features added constantly to the flight sims, with progress comes deletion of backwards compatibility and new ways of doing things, especially when the programs version in question are almost entirely different programs in their own right, but just happen to have the same aircraft in them.

 

I love to play those old mission from long ago also, that is what got me into the mission editor in the first place, I was reasonably successful in getting most of my old downloaded bs1 missions working in BS2 and then DCS World.

 

The biggest issues faced with the old BS1-BS2 conversions:

 

• Some static objects were removed or renamed in the assets register for placement on the map.
  
• Don't recall it actually ever deleting aircraft flights on conversion, but most definitely did some static objects due the above reason.
  
• Mission Editor roles were changed for some aircraft types which caused advanced commands such as bombing and ground attack to be invalid commands for said aircraft, requiring changes to the role to the new appropriate one, and or to changing the bombing commands to something else.
  
• Biggest problem faced was triggers being deleted due the units they were associated with no long existing in the converted mission.
  
• Probably other issues I can't remember with referring to my notes.
  

With all this in mind, there is a big difference in trying to get a:

 

• BS1 mission working in the latest DCS World BS2 module - Might need several hours, days or months of work to getting it going successfully (Depends on complexity).
  
• BS2 or newer compatible mission working in the latest DCS World BS2 module - Might only need a few minutes or a few hours of work to getting it going or you may have to wait until the bug that is stopping it from working is fixed by ED, or it may just work perfectly the same (ok).
  

I would be happy to have a quick look at some of your missions for conversion it you want to PM me and arrange a way for me to download them.

 

 

Regards, Ian.

[eV1Te]

Very sad to hear that you have been put off by our comments, but it is totally understandable, there have been a many good mission designers come and go in the ED forums for the very same reasons. I for one have large respect for these people for their time, passion and commitment they give to the hobby of ours.

 

Unfortunately this is the price we pay for having new features added constantly to the flight sims, with progress comes deletion of backwards compatibility and new ways of doing things, especially when the programs version in question are almost entirely different programs in their own right, but just happen to have the same aircraft in them.

 

I love to play those old mission from long ago also, that is what got me into the mission editor in the first place, I was reasonably successful in getting most of my old downloaded bs1 missions working in BS2 and then DCS World.

 

The biggest issues faced with the old BS1-BS2 conversions:

 

• Some static objects were removed or renamed in the assets register for placement on the map.
  
• Don't recall it actually ever deleting aircraft flights on conversion, but most definitely did some static objects due the above reason.
  
• Mission Editor roles were changed for some aircraft types which caused advanced commands such as bombing and ground attack to be invalid commands for said aircraft, requiring changes to the role to the new appropriate one, and or to changing the bombing commands to something else.
  
• Biggest problem faced was triggers being deleted due the units they were associated with no long existing in the converted mission.
  
• Probably other issues I can't remember with referring to my notes.
  

With all this in mind, there is a big difference in trying to get a:

 

• BS1 mission working in the latest DCS World BS2 module - Might need several hours, days or months of work to getting it going successfully (Depends on complexity).
  
• BS2 or newer compatible mission working in the latest DCS World BS2 module - Might only need a few minutes or a few hours of work to getting it going or you may have to wait until the bug that is stopping it from working is fixed by ED, or it may just work perfectly the same (ok).
  

I would be happy to have a quick look at some of your missions for conversion it you want to PM me and arrange a way for me to download them.

 

 

Regards, Ian.

 

Thanks for the breakdown. I completely understand that they are adding new features etc, but that doesn't mean that they have to remove older features which breaks compatibility (well ok from BS1 to today is quite a long time, but people mentioned that mission can break after just one patch).

 

The mission I had in mind was this one: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=37546

 

It contains quite a lot of scripted events which heavily relies on triggers which activates quite complicated events, such as bombers that have to bomb specific coordinates only after SAMs have been taken out. Hence since I do not have BS1 installed and I noticed that most of the complicated triggers were missing from the mission and I think that it would be easier to just remake the mission from scratch instead.

[MadDog-IC]

Thanks for the breakdown. I completely understand that they are adding new features etc, but that doesn't mean that they have to remove older features which breaks compatibility (well ok from BS1 to today is quite a long time, but people mentioned that mission can break after just one patch).

 

The mission I had in mind was this one: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=37546

 

It contains quite a lot of scripted events which heavily relies on triggers which activates quite complicated events, such as bombers that have to bomb specific coordinates only after SAMs have been taken out. Hence since I do not have BS1 installed and I noticed that most of the complicated triggers were missing from the mission and I think that it would be easier to just remake the mission from scratch instead.

 

I have tried bs1, has a bit of a resolution issue now, if I go to a resolution of 1920 x 1080 I can't see the buttons in the mission Editor, only the map so have to run in 1024x768, probably video card driver issue.

 

Have done a quick apprasal of the mission in bs1 and in dcsw 1.55x and all looks fairly ok to me, but I am sure you know your mission better than me.

 

All the units seem accounted for, same amount of Heli, planes, vehicles, ships and static objects.

 

Triggers are harder to check, but I see no real issue as yet, only way to know is to fly mission and I am not a position to do that at the moment.

 

Tested Single player version in dcsw v1.55x with AI doing the flying.

 

• Deleted some extranious and almost duplicate triggers causing mission to mis-fire.
  
• Replaced corrupt payloads on the bombers with a valid payload.
  
• Changed Players Ka-50 to CAS so I can use AI to test fly mission
  
• Gave Players Ka-50, attack orders to engage SAM (So AI can fly it).
  
• Checked triggering of certain critical events, some issues, but I think they are programming mistakes (please don't this personally).
  
• Bombers hit their targets hard after SAMs down.
  
• Changed scoring for single player scoring
  
• Mission completed successfully.
  

With knowing much about how the mission is supposed to be, it is playing quite well, except for some strange triggering of kill the sams because dam convoy is getting artilleried, the sams are dead and the bombers have dropped their payloads and have mission success, so I am guessing the bombers are suppost to take out the arty units also, but didn't.

 

I think the mission is good shape, but has a few minor issues that are easily fixed, I would say don't be put off by what has been said by some, not all missions get broken by each patch and is more that the game engine is faulty and ED need to fix their stuff and not the mission file itself, not unless the Mission Editor corrupts or deletes part of the mission file which is very rare, but it has and does happen.

 

The mission looks exactly the same in BS1 and DCSW BS2 editors by the way, so nothing has been removed from the original.

 

My test version is attached with Ka-50 AI flying the mission.

 

Cheers, Ian.

eV1Te - Behind Enemy Lines SP_DCSW BS2_fixed.miz

Edited December 3, 2016 by MadDog-IC

[eV1Te]

I have tried bs1, has a bit of a resolution issue now, if I go to a resolution of 1920 x 1080 I can't see the buttons in the mission Editor, only the map so have to run in 1024x768, probably video card driver issue.

 

Have done a quick apprasal of the mission in bs1 and in dcsw 1.55x and all looks fairly ok to me, but I am sure you know your mission better than me.

 

All the units seem accounted for, same amount of Heli, planes, vehicles, ships and static objects.

 

Triggers are harder to check, but I see no real issue as yet, only way to know is to fly mission and I am not a position to do that at the moment.

 

Tested Single player version in dcsw v1.55x with AI doing the flying.

 

• Deleted some extranious and almost duplicate triggers causing mission to mis-fire.
  
• Replaced corrupt payloads on the bombers with a valid payload.
  
• Changed Players Ka-50 to CAS so I can use AI to test fly mission
  
• Gave Players Ka-50, attack orders to engage SAM (So AI can fly it).
  
• Checked triggering of certain critical events, some issues, but I think they are programming mistakes (please don't this personally).
  
• Bombers hit their targets hard after SAMs down.
  
• Changed scoring for single player scoring
  
• Mission completed successfully.
  

With knowing much about how the mission is supposed to be, it is playing quite well, except for some strange triggering of kill the sams because dam convoy is getting artilleried, the sams are dead and the bombers have dropped their payloads and have mission success, so I am guessing the bombers are suppost to take out the arty units also, but didn't.

 

I think the mission is good shape, but has a few minor issues that are easily fixed, I would say don't be put off by what has been said by some, not all missions get broken by each patch and is more that the game engine is faulty and ED need to fix their stuff and not the mission file itself, not unless the Mission Editor corrupts or deletes part of the mission file which is very rare, but it has and does happen.

 

The mission looks exactly the same in BS1 and DCSW BS2 editors by the way, so nothing has been removed from the original.

 

My test version is attached with Ka-50 AI flying the mission.

 

Cheers, Ian.

 

Thanks a lot Ian, I don't get any error messages opening this and it seems to work ok at a first glance.

 

At first I thought it was completely messed up, but I quickly realized that most of the units were hidden. After unhiding everything it looked normal again.

 

I will try it out some more and maybe make some changes while I am at it. :thumbup: