Joystick without springs and FFB?

[Holton181]

Hi,

 

What EXACTLY is the “Joystick without springs and FFB” DO?

And is it exactly the same as for the Huey (haven't tested that one yet)

The description in the (new) manual basically says the same as for “Default” (which is wrong in the manual by the way, with “Default” you are supposed to return to center within a set time).

 

As I understand it from reading and testing “Joystick without springs and FFB” is the one where the trimer button sound is heard and nothing else. If it doesn't do anything "behind the scenes" that I haven't noticed, its basically useless? only adding to the "feeling" of flying the real thing with a button that makes a sound?

 

BR

/H

[Looney]

https://flightsimcontrols.com/store/joysticks/defender-cobra-m5-joystick-revb/

 

It's a joystick without centering springs so when you tap the trimmer button and leave the joystick alone, the position of the ingame cyclic and your joystick match.

[Holton181]

Yep, mine is the PFT Lynx with no spring and no FFB.

If you leave such a joystick alone it will drop if you isn't successfully balancing it at center position. So you always have to hold the stick, i.e. no real use for the trim then.

 

According to this that (moded) stick work exactly as mine in that respect.

[Holton181]

Ah, yes, it came clear to me after going to bed. It's amazing how efficient your brain start to work when all you want to do is to sleep...

 

That was the reasons for adding the washers, to add sufficient friction to keep the joystick in place where you left it. The post I linked to appear to be Google-translated and a little bit hard to follow.

So this setting is basically a way to "fool" the sim that you have a FFB when you don't.

 

The problem is that in real helicopters virtually no friction exist. With friction cyclic handling would become less smooth an more erratic. I'm a helicopter pilot IRL and the whay the cyclic is controlled don't permit any friction.

 

But then again with a short joystick, like most are, the feel of the controls aren't that realistic anyhow, and the added friction doesn't need to be that high due to light weight stick.

[trigen]

Force feedback would be the absolute best for this of course but once you put some extension on the ms ffb2 the deadzone in the middle is huge and not great for helicopter flying. So while this method is quite good, the best way if you dont have a FFB system is a counter weight so it balances perfectly.

 

The price on the Cobra is actually really good and it shouldnt need much of a counterweight to keep it balanced. The problem is that you cant keep it on your desk anymore, something that makes it a deal breaker for many. Personally i use a Warthog with a 36cm curved extension and while it more or less stays where you put it the gimbal feel is horrible and it cant be balanced with a weight. I would give a lot for a high precision FFB stick

 

Nice mod by the way

Edited December 7, 2016 by trigen

[Holton181]

I'm having a Pro Fligt Trainer Lynx, and being a very nice helicopter controller overall, it lacks the possibility to let go of the cyclic other than balance it slightly aft of center due to it's shape.

And I would need quite much counterweight to balance it the way you describe. But I have thought of it though and believe it's possible, will see if I get the time to implement it some day.

Having FFB on it would be awesome!

[Weta43]

but once you put some extension on the ms ffb2 the deadzone in the middle is huge and not great for helicopter flying.

 

?

I have an MS FFB II, and I don't have any deadzone.

(none discernible at all in the axis tune dialogue.)

[trigen]

?

I have an MS FFB II, and I don't have any deadzone.

(none discernible at all in the axis tune dialogue.)

 

Do you have any sort of extension on it? With my 35ish cm one i have around .3 to half a cm play in the middle. Just checked at the base and its about 1mm mid stick, at least on mine.

 

For me that's a bit to much for something i fly a lot around the center (with the extension), i tend to hover and slingload a lot. for forward flight you can live with it. Id love to use it but the Warthog just feels so much better

Edited December 8, 2016 by trigen

[Weta43]

No, no extension.

I think we were talking about different things anyway.

I thought you meant there was a control deadzone when the stick was centered.

I don't have one of those, and it wouldn't be a particular problem even if I did, because with the FFB stick trimmed, you're no more likely to have the stick over that central position than any other point in the stick's range of travel (or less likely ) Now if there were a deadzone around the area where the stick sits when trimmed for a hover, that would be a problem...

 

Maybe though you mean that there's a point +/- 0.5 mm of travel around where the stick is trimmed to that has no FFB ?

I could see that if you were a more obsessive trimmer than I am, that might be an issue.

I'm a bit slack about that and usually end up trimmed to within a few mm of travel of where the stick actually is as I hover, not so out of trim I'm fighting the stick, but not usually so close to perfectly trimmed that the issue you mentioned causes there to be a slack spot in the controls.

[trigen]

Apologies for the late reply.

 

Talking about the center position of the stick so you were correct there. The pots wont react at all so you got some play which will get larger with the extension. Is it a huge issue for normal flight, no not really but with hovers around center i find it to be quite a nuisance.

 

In the meantime i've read about someone that connected the pots to a Bodnar board while still keeping it connected to the controller for the MS ffb to get rid on the DZ and gain more accuracy so that's a good way to sort the issue and still retain the FFB. I happen to have the Bodnar board but i fried my stick so ill have to wait until the end of the coming week to test it.

 

Out of curiosity, do you have the red trigger or the grey one, perhaps there is some difference on the dead zone size? I got the grey one myself