r27 v r27er v r27em

[ericinexile]

A question for the pros out there with the time and compunction to test weaponry: Other than superior range, is there a difference in maneuverability or guidance logic of the "er" and "em" models over the standard r27? For my own experience I seem to have better luck with the "em" but that impression is far from scientific. Thanks for the help.

 

Eric

"Smokin'Hole"

[Shaman]

From our experience in 504 - EMs miss more often then ERs.

EMs could possibly be better against very low flying targets, but that's what I'm still testing. Results are inconclusive.

[Ardillita]

Yes, I don´t have backed up test, but this is what I found:

 

The 27s are suposed to be good for intercepting cruise missiles (wich have low flying pattern). Many times I try to get down 1 of them with r27r or er i missed too much lamost useless it to try (with the cruise missile in fron of you, firing range 30 km aprox)

 

Instead of that, I definitly can say that I have amuch higher kill ratio with the EM series.

 

Now Im very curious... I will do a test tonight, and present the results here.

[Pilotasso]

I dont use EM's like most people do. When flying Su-33's I preffer not to face the enemy head to head but aproach him by an unexpected angle and force him to go defensive.

 

Under 20km, no one but no one can outrun that missile. Form a rear aspect its a death sentence. With the shear ammount of missiles the 33 can carry, youll be able to run him out of chaff very easely.

 

Either be it ER or EM, going head to head in a Su-33 is a mistake unless you are extremely good evading missiles (specialy 120's and 77's) you will always get shot before yours reach the target and you cant turn away risking a miss or become a prey yourself.

[Святой]

All difference between R-27EM and R-27ER is a new warhead initiator, modified especially for intercept low-fliyng targets, prtotected from agains negative influence of sea or land surface.

[Pilotasso]

has this been modeled in any way in the game?

[Ardillita]

I dont use EM's like most people do. When flying Su-33's I preffer not to face the enemy head to head but aproach him by an unexpected angle and force him to go defensive.

 

Under 20km, no one but no one can outrun that missile. Form a rear aspect its a death sentence. With the shear ammount of missiles the 33 can carry, youll be able to run him out of chaff very easely.

 

Either be it ER or EM, going head to head in a Su-33 is a mistake unless you are extremely good evading missiles (specialy 120's and 77's) you will always get shot before yours reach the target and you cant turn away risking a miss or become a prey yourself.

 

I don´t know if it is correct to name it " a mistake", to catch the enemy from an unexpected angle is what most of us would like to do always, but how many time you can do such thing? You need an awacs to do that and be able to get around the enemy, and beside this, you will only succeed if the enemy has not suceed into scanning you in their radar.

 

in my case, a couple of good assigned keys and I can use the radar very quickly and easily. If you are BVR, you have enough time to scan and start evasive maneouvers, and when you get to clese combat, you still have close combat modes that makes things a lot easier for scanning

 

And you are very right, catching the enemy from an unexpected angle is almost a guaranted kill, but, again, this is an ideal situation that not always is at our hands, no matter how good the pilot is, the other pilots only need some good scanning abilities to detect you and so ruin you plans, and you have no other way that a face to face engagement

[Pilotasso]

I don´t know if it is correct to name it " a mistake", to catch the enemy from an unexpected angle is what most of us would like to do always, but how many time you can do such thing?

 

Refrain from going from your base straight to the enemy's. After that it should be quite predictable where they will be. Point your radar there and keep checking from time to time.

One thing that shows in any online missions is that almost always the enemy comes from the same bearing, except when there are multiple bases assigned scattered arround the map wich almost never happens.

 

Consulting the Scoreboard also helps. Certain high scorers display predictable behaviours on certain areas of the map.

 

in my case, a couple of good assigned keys and I can use the radar very quickly and easily. If you are BVR, you have enough time to scan and start evasive maneouvers, and when you get to clese combat, you still have close combat modes that makes things a lot easier for scanning

 

Exactly! I did my stick profile after this objective. when you want to aproach the enemy from an unexpected angle you want to be as fast and efficient scanning the airspcace as possible, giving the enemy fvery little warning. Often they disregard if the warning is not particularly persisntent (and aparently less threatening).

[ericinexile]

Thanks All!

 

So another question: Does anyone find the r27 superior at shorter ranges (<30 km)? To phrase it another way, are the "er" and "em" modeled as less maneuverable and therefore inferior if range isn't an issue?

 

"Smokin'Hole"

[Pilotasso]

Thanks All!

 

So another question: Does anyone find the r27 superior at shorter ranges (<30 km)? To phrase it another way, are the "er" and "em" modeled as less maneuverable and therefore inferior if range isn't an issue?

 

"Smokin'Hole"

 

30km still gives plenty of space to cut the turns and avoid forcing the missiles from having to turn hard. Under 10 Km the R-77 exibits some difficulties versus particularly evasive pilots.

When shot upwards the R-27ER/EM under 30 miles, provided that you werent shot first, are almost always lethal. They are so fast they catch up quickly, rarely giving much time for the enemy to hide in the terrain.

 

If the target is isolated under 20 km when looking up, shooting an ER/EM or an ET makes no difference. Save the ET for more dangerous engagements. Hes dead, unless hes a hero. These are my favourite kind of engagements. Like to see the target squeal in fear before the inevitable end. :D

 

 

When shot against the ground, R-27ER/EM often miss when the target dumps some chaff. After the missile has missed give it a couple seconds before the next shot to prevent the next missile from being fooled by the same chaff salvo. Timed shot intervals maximizes the amount of chaff the enemy expends to defeat them. After 3-4 missiles they are empty, and the next missile usualy gets him easely. EM is pretty lethal in this fashion. Even more if the same target had already fought before you did.

 

Bluffing, by shooting an ER when your behind him but outside the range might fool him into turn to one of the sides in the atempt to dodge that one, wich will leave him vulnerable to further shots. But be carefull, some aces out there are educated against this and might keep going to drag you to his wingman.

[ericinexile]

Thanks Pilotasso,

 

What I meant with the question above about the "r27" was actually about how the plane-jane r27 compares at shorter ranges to the "em" or "er" models. Anyway, you've helped me (and others I'm sure) enough so don't feel obligated to reply further.

 

I really wish the SUs could carry r77s as it sure is nice to have the HOJ/semi-active capability. The MiG's legs are too short and the Eagle just doesn't push my buttons.

 

Thanks again all!

 

"Smokin'Hole"

[nscode]

MiG's legs are more than enough if you know how to use 'em :)

 

hint: AB is not your friend ;)

[ericinexile]

hint: AB is not your friend ;)

 

It is when I'm running to home plate with my tail between my legs and two Eagles locked on my tail.:cry: (happens to me alot)