difference between F-model pedals by Baur (BRD)?

[elecsys]

:helpsmilie:

 

can someone explain to me what the differences between the three F-models are (aside from some using more steel),

i.e. how they differ mechanically/kinematically, and how that would that effect user experience?

 

 

 

BRD-F1 frame ("Friedrich" frame)

 

 

 

 

BRD-F2 frame ("Friedrich" frame)

 

 

BRD-F3 frame ("Kamov" curved frame) (also the frame of MS1 [single axis], MS2 [single axis], MS3 models)

 

 

 

 

the difference between F1 and F2 is just floor mount vs. cockpit mount, right?

 

 

also, Sokol1 mentioned something in a different thread, back in September:

 

 

As the "F" frame has space, their latest revision - not produced yet - will provide support for fit (purchased/installed by the user) motorcycle dampers,

for please that people in their "Quest for the Feel Simulator".

 

are there any news on this new (F4?) model?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2017 by elecsys

[Sokol1_br]

Is like you say, the difference in "Friedrich" is the floor support bars x bolt screw base (for cockpit use).

 

"F-4" * is the previous "Friedrich" model with support for Damper, see the bracket at left of CAM arm support.

 

Besides this details the kinematics looks the same.

 

 

And Kamov is the one with resemblance to Kamov heli pedals, with versions with 1 axis or 3

(brakes). This models is more affordable. Too with "X" floor support bars or screw on versions.

 

EDIT - And "Kamov" has option for SU-35 like foot rest.

 

* Not sure about the correct "F" names, this matter is always confuse.

 

Better ask for Baur (MP, email), as well about availability of each model.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Sokol1_br

[heloguy]

I have the F1 version with the damper installed, using the soft center cam, and SU-35 pedals. Honestly I can't recommend them enough. I don't have the kamov style pedals, so I cannot comment on the differences, but I do have Slaw Vipers, and while those are extremely nice pedals too, I prefer Baur's design.

 

This is mainly due to a larger pedal travel, and smoother feel with the soft center cam (I also have the softest center cam available in my Slaw pedals).

 

I'm sure you couldn't go wrong with either set.

Edited January 30, 2017 by heloguy

[Red Yeti]

The F1 and F2 are nearly the same.

 

If I understood it right, the main advantages of the F1/F2 compared to the F3 type:

- ability to mount the damper (the damper is optional as far as i know)

- switchable CAM system (for a hard or soft center point)

 

aside from this the F1&F2 are:

- more stable (they look like an elephant could use them ;-) otherwise the F3 looks stable too)

- it should be easier to mount the footrests angled (but i don't think you will change them often)

 

You can use the SU35 and the ME 109 footrest on both types of pedals.

Here are some more pictures: http://avia-sim.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=909

Edited January 30, 2017 by Red Yeti

[elecsys]

thx guys!

F1/F2 sounds like what i would want.

Is it possible to order the F1 with the option to convert it to an F2 later? I plan to build a cockpit later this year, but i would like to go with a floor mounted version at the beginning...

 

 

@ heloguy

there's a coincidence :D

i also looked at slaw's pedals as an option, and even wanted to open a thread to ask for a comparison with baur's pedals.

can you elaborate a bit, why you prefer baur over slaws?

could you tell me at what min/max angle the pedal feet may be installed on both slaw and baur's?

are all three cams included by default with an F1/F2 order? as well as both hinges for either vertical/inclined installation of pedal feet?

Edited January 31, 2017 by elecsys

[heloguy]

elecsys

 

Don't get me wrong, Slaw's pedals are great, but I'll detail below.

 

Between Slaw's, and Baur's, they are almost the exact same size widthwise, so you definitely need a good amount of room for them. Both of them require to be mounted. Both have smooth action using roller bearings and a cam design. I have the damper installed on both.

 

I received Baur's first, quickly switching to the soft center cam. Between that, and the damper feel, it's the closest I've come to the feeling of actual pedals. Very precise, and no sticktion. My only complaint is that the toe brakes seem to have a very large travel throw. Not a big deal, as on most sims I can adjust the top end deadzone. I've set them to about 75% where I can, and this seems to work pretty well.

 

Slaw's came next, so I swapped the F1's out to give them a try. Same precise, smooth feeling, with no sticktion as Baur's, and the toe brakes seem to be (default) mounted more vertically. Consequently, you do not have to extend your feet as far to fully depress the brakes on Slaw's pedals. They may be able to be adjusted, but I haven't tried, as I like them where they are. The first difference I noticed was that the center felt much harder on the default cam than what I had been used to in my two weeks with the F1s, so I switched to the 'soft' center cam (very easy to switch cams on both by the way). Even with the softer cam, the center is more pronounced with the Slaw pedals, although it is not a problem per se with controllability (again, very smooth and precise), but may be a matter of preference. I prefer the F1's feel, as I said. The other thing I noticed, is that the actual throw of the rudder pedals themselves from full left to full right is slightly less than that of Baur's design. Again, I think this would be more of a personal preference thing, but I prefer the F1's with the larger movement.

 

Also, at the time, Baur's pedals were slightly cheaper (by about $100 U.S.). I still have both, and I'm not planning on getting rid of either any time soon, but right now I'm using the F1's.

 

All three cams were included, and I've only tried two.

 

As far as the angle you're referring to, I'm not sure exactly what angle you're talking about. Baur's I think can only be installed one angle vertically, and then are adjustable in the horizontal plane. I prefer them straight, as Slaw's are.

[elecsys]

elecsys

 

As far as the angle you're referring to, I'm not sure exactly what angle you're talking about. Baur's I think can only be installed one angle vertically, and then are adjustable in the horizontal plane. I prefer them straight, as Slaw's are.

 

sorry, my bad, i was talking about the pedal angle adjustment.

can you tell me at what min/max angle they can be mounted on both? (approximately)

like i.e. mfg crosswinds can be adjusted from 20° to 62°

 

${1}

1:25 -1:37

 

 

-------

 

 

also, does BAUR include both "hinges", for either normal/vertical or ergonomic/inclined mount of pedals?

[heloguy]

Baur's set does include the mounts for both installs. I think you can only do one angle, or the other. There is nothing in between from what you see in the pictures you posted.

 

Slaw's pedals do not allow for that angle adjustment.

[elecsys]

thx,

and you've mentioned something about the toe brakes being mounted more vertically (by default) on slaw's, compared to baur's.

Is it possible to change the toe breaks of the F1's to a more vertical orientation, compared to what they are by default?

(sorry for confusion, that's what i meant by "pedal angle adjustment", and the mfg video i posted)

[heloguy]

@elecsys,

 

No issues, just wasn't sure which angle you were talking about. As far as Baur's are concerned, it looks like the vertical angle of the toe brakes is slightly adjustable, maybe between 60-80 degrees. As it stands, mine are at the '80' degree mark, and it still feels like it takes too much movement to max out their travel. Like I said, it's not a real big problem, though.

 

Slaw's pedals don't seem to have any adjustment for the toe brake angle.

[Slaw]

 

The key word here "seem to"

All my pedals have an adjustment angle of the brake pedal (3-4 positions).

 

[Sokol1_br]

See the angles there - you have 4 positions for BRD foot rest angle:

 

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=909#p29358

[heloguy]

The key word here "seem to"

All my pedals have an adjustment angle of the brake pedal (3-4 positions).

 

My mistake.

[elecsys]

thanks a lot guys, great help!

going to contact BAUR for an F1!

 

 

just one more question:

does anyone of you know if the F1 model can be transformed into an F2 easily/cheaply, or would i have to replace the whole center base thing for that? Because the bolt screw base on the F2 looks like it's cut from one piece...

Or could i just mount the F1 in a cockpit, if i remove it's small floor grips?

[Baur]

just one more question:

does anyone of you know if the F1 model can be transformed into an F2 easily/cheaply, or would i have to replace the whole center base thing for that?

No, it will be a different model pedals :)

 

 

You can take any sheet of plywood (appropriate size) and fasten them pedal.

[Baur]

sorry, my bad, i was talking about the pedal angle adjustment.

can you tell me at what min/max angle they can be mounted on both? (approximately)

like i.e. mfg crosswinds can be adjusted from 20° to 62°

30° to 60° :thumbup:

 

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=7810

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=7811

Edited February 4, 2017 by Baur

[Baur]

My only complaint is that the toe brakes seem to have a very large travel throw. Not a big deal, as on most sims I can adjust the top end deadzone. I've set them to about 75% where I can, and this seems to work pretty well.

Brake angle of 25 degrees. I'll try to explain.

Little progress of the brake will not be comfortable. How to explain to Search result? Who will help me :))) Full braking should not be comfortable. Full braking should be rare. Comfortable brake should be 2/3 to 3/4 maximum brake stroke. It is necessary that you do not accidentally turned your aircraft belly up :))) So see?

 

 

I spend a lot of time to your convenience and ergonomics.

[heloguy]

Thanks for stepping in with those angle numbers, both Slaw and Baur.