Stick, throttle, pedals 'weight' discussion

[hughlb]

I recently asked a 777 pilot about the force required to move my crosswind pedals, when he tried them out in DCS. He said they were responsive, but too light.

 

So what weight would a throttle, control stick, and pedals be in an F/A-18 or 15? What would the weights be in say, a Spitfire?

 

Is there any force data available?

 

In pursuit of realism, I'm trying to set correct spring tension, especially given the new Gunfighter will allow us to finally configure the 'heaviness' of the control stick.

[FoxDelta]

for WW2 acft:

the required amount of force depends on the true airspeed, especially the rudder and the elevator's would become very hard to move

[Goblin]

Control forces vary with aircraft type, and those with direct connection to the control surfaces are subject to aerodynamic loads. Some are servo assisted, others have artificial feedback, etc.

 

I fly the DCH8 myself, and have an acro rating on light aircraft. I agree that flightsim controllers generally are too light. I got the Slaw Viper pedals with a damper, and the BRD-N joystick that are quite heavy, compared to other controllers.

 

I prefer controllers that feel like they have mass, if you know what I mean. They don't have to be that heavy, but I need to be able to rest my feet on the pedals, without moving them, and the stick must provide enough resistance that I get a feel for where I have my hand, in relation to center. I think this is because I'm used to real aircraft.

 

Simulating control forces with springs and dampers is tricky. Many controller designs use cams which act as a variable moment arm for the spring resistance, making the forces around center lighter, and heavier further from center.

 

It's hard to give a number for what will be considered enough control force.

It's more of a question about what you are used to, or comfortable with...

 

The VKB GF will have dampers, AFAIK, and that will probably improve on the feel of the stick.

[mvsgas]

If I may add;

Not only are most aircraft different, you would have to bolt down/secure pedals and control to get some equal force to move various controls.

For example, F-16 pedals:

The rudder pedal force is 15 pounds at breakout and approximately 110 pounds at maximum deflection.

from 1F-16CM-2-27GS-00-1

 

 

The maximum steady state AOA with full aft stick (35 pounds stick force) is 50 to 55°

 

Stick Force. In maneuvering flight, there is a light but constant stick force per g (about 3.5 to

4.5 pounds/g). Unlike many other aircraft, maneuvering stick forces do not vary significantly over the

entire operating envelope as long as the AOA is less than AOA feedback of 22°. Where AOA feedback

is active, maneuvering stick forces are increased significantly.

from A1-F18AC-NFM-000

Edited March 18, 2017 by mvsgas

[hughlb]

Thanks everyone for the informed discussion! I didn't realise how heavy the forces are. My crosswinds are dialed up to 3/4 of full tension, and they are 18 pounds at full load. That isn't even close to the 16 pounds of breakout, let alone full load of real aircraft.

 

I guess the lesson to take away is to dial the crosswinds up quite high. The stick weight should be easier to achieve as the loads are considerably less. The Gunfighter should offer a lot of functionality in this regard.

 

Like has been said, each aircraft is different, so it's about finding a middle ground.

 

This has been really useful in setting my rudder pedals much higher than I had originally expected.