R-27EA (AE) on Su-27

[GGTharos]

Oh no. Another Yefim Gordon attack! ;)

Kinda like Jane's data about the Su-33 getting copied all over the place despite being 'projected' capabilities that never happened, and then being used as factual ... ;)

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Oh no. Another Yefim Gordon attack! ;)

Kinda like Jane's data about the Su-33 getting copied all over the place despite being 'projected' capabilities that never happened, and then being used as factual ... ;)

He, he, he ... Do you have this book?

[Teknetinium]

Incorrect. The AE was removed not because of user request but because the team knows that the missile has never entered Ru service and it was unrealistic to include it. As simple as that.

 

-Matt

 

then u should put a chines Su-27 :), as u did whit the German mig. as I see it Lock on was based on balance rather then reality, so why not. to late for it now thou. And to early for Su-27SM :(

 

So F-15 pilots can keep their imagination of being untouchable whit aim-120 loaded, which I don't disagree whit if we were living in 80s.

[RedTiger]

Oh no. Another Yefim Gordon attack! ;)

Kinda like Jane's data about the Su-33 getting copied all over the place despite being 'projected' capabilities that never happened, and then being used as factual ... ;)

 

QFT. Aside from Yefim Gordon's not-so-hard-to-tell bias, he's been accused of reusing material through out his various books.

 

I guess this is prone to happen when you write like 4 books on the same aircraft, all of which are supposed to be comprehensive and all-encompassing. I own a couple of his books but I don't see the point of buying -yet another- comprehensive guide to the same plane.

 

Another observation I've made is that the books I have by him are chronolgically confusing. Its like he tries to follow the history of the aircraft AND he skips around to cover the different variants.

 

Also, he says absolutely nothing about which of the variants are in service and which are tech demonstrators. He provides no numbers for quantity of aircraft in service, and no model designations for what is in service. To the lay-reader, this would create an inaccurate picture of the state of the RuAF, making it seem far more advanced. So, its not surprising he throws in a bunch of pictures of R-27EAs. See above reference with regards to "bias". ;)

[Teknetinium]

If Russians had money I bet they would by those fancy planes that not entered service for more then 10 years of existing, take su-34.

Yefim Gordon is probably trying to sell the stuff rather then talking about RUAF.

Economic resources are still putted in to research for those who have money.

[GGTharos]

And if we had warp drives I'd be a starship Captain :)

 

Hajduk: No, I don't have the book. Do pardon my sarcasm, but did you understand the point I tied to make in my reply?

 

RT: Bingo :D

[S77th-konkussion]

:sleep:zzz...ep wha? Oh him again? zzzzzzz:sleep:

[RedTiger]

If Russians had money I bet they would by those fancy planes that not entered service for more then 10 years of existing, take su-34.

Yefim Gordon is probably trying to sell the stuff rather then talking about RUAF.

Economic resources are still putted in to research for those who have money.

 

Dear Mr. Gordon,

 

Please stop. No one wants to read "informative" books about kit from an author who is being paid by the design burea of said kit.

 

Your Friend,

 

RedTiger

[Mugatu]

I think when this thread gets to 500 post it's time to add the EA back on to the SU-27 :)

[159th_Viper]

I think when this thread gets to 500 post it's time to add the EA back on to the SU-27 :)

 

6 and Counting...............:pain:

[nscode]

And if we had warp drives I'd be a starship Captain :)

 

really don't see the point of the comparison

[Geier]

Hajduk Veljko, please, please give some info from this book. If you make this like a quotation there'll be no offence.

[GGTharos]

It was a response to 'if Russia had money' ... they didn't, and reality is that their airforce has been technologically backwards.

 

really don't see the point of the comparison

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Hajduk Veljko, please, please give some info from this book. If you make this like a quotation there'll be no offence.

You can get it from Amazon. I've just got it and haven't had a time reading it yet. I just glanced through it looking at the pictures and found about a doezen with EA missiles. There are all kinds of EA missile colors, from dummy white to seeker operative (no warhead) red. Some of them are white with black stripes (inert).

 

It appears that the AE missile has a cone shaped radome (see picture at the link below).

 

http://www.missiles.ru/_foto/MAKS-2005_weapons/CRW_9639.jpg

 

R and ER missiles have ogival radome. Does anybody have a good, LIVE R or ER missile picture? Also, good LIVE R-77 picture?

[Teknetinium]

It was a response to 'if Russia had money' ... they didn't, and reality is that their airforce has been technologically backwards.

 

Lool backward what kind off word is that, Russians have not been going forward as fast as western technology, like I told u before its easier to upgrade a software then proper construction design and air dynamics.

At the moment russians have technology which can bee compered to EF-2000 and u call it as going backwards. stop living in 80s GG

wake up.

 

If u would think like that as pilot u would get u self and u squad pretty much downed.

[GGTharos]

I don't see Russia fielding anything as tightly integrated as the EF-2000, nor missiles that even achieve parity with AIM-120 or meteor. You're the one who needs to stop being delusional. ;) Russia is still playing catch-up in the technological arena, like it or not.

 

I also didn't say 'going backwards', which has a completely different meaning from what I did say; please do make an attempt to read what others post for content.

[Teknetinium]

:)

[Geier]

You can get it from Amazon. I've just got it and haven't had a time reading it yet. I just glanced through it looking at the pictures and found about a doezen with EA missiles. There are all kinds of EA missile colors, from dummy white to seeker operative (no warhead) red. Some of them are white with black stripes (inert).

 

It appears that the AE missile has a cone shaped radome (see picture at the link below).

 

http://www.missiles.ru/_foto/MAKS-2005_weapons/CRW_9639.jpg

 

R and ER missiles have ogival radome. Does anybody have a good, LIVE R or ER missile picture? Also, good LIVE R-77 picture?

 

Yes, I see.

 

R77

 

 

 

 

There's no foto R77 in combat RuAF regiments.

 

R73, R27ET R27ER

 

[GGTharos]

Funny thing, I was looking at ogival vs. conical nose cones, and it turns out that ogival is more aerodynamic (Read: less drag) ... something rather important for a missile.

It is possible that a simple conical nosecone simplifies the radio refraction through the nose cone, but that would mean that the seeker sucks (since the SARH variant already used ogival ... ). Further, a conical nose cone heats up faster (more drag!) which affects radar performance.

 

So ... either that EA seeker really, really sucks, or anything with a conical nose cone in the R-27 series is not carrying a seeker ;)

[GGTharos]

And it would appear that the manufacturer has no problem with using the more efficient ogival radome: http://www.rusarm.ru/cataloque/air_craft/aircraft_107-110.pdf

 

... I think any R-27 with a conical nose cone isn't an EA ... it rather has no seeker whatsoever.

[Pilotasso]

Lool backward what kind off word is that, Russians have not been going forward as fast as western technology, like I told u before its easier to upgrade a software then proper construction design and air dynamics.

At the moment russians have technology which can bee compered to EF-2000 and u call it as going backwards. stop living in 80s GG

wake up.

 

If u would think like that as pilot u would get u self and u squad pretty much downed.

 

First, the vast majority of RuAF aircraft still live in the analog era. Thus no software upgradeability. Infact if I had read correctly these planes cant make appart the different weapons they carry, only pylons types, that have to be cycled through nob swiches on the dashboard. by todays standards thats stone age primitive. I'd say thats alot more important than the ability to stall without spin (COBRA) or supercruise.

 

The exceptions to this are the Su-27SM's and the Mig-31's. The later needing upgrades and the first in very reduced numbers.

 

Su-27SM is more like a midle life upgrade (like the one for F-16) rather than a step for superiority.

 

There are no weapons in exitence in RuAF that can hopefully match the capability of the meteor. Russia is years away from a plane comparable to the EF2000. instead its stuck with 30 year old missile technology and limited to a handfull of planes that have minimum modern standards.

 

BTW and IMHO the plane that I would be more scared to face is the Mig-31, not the flanker.

[Teknetinium]

India have more Su-30M Then Russians, Russian air force is not updated that's obvious but it doesnt mean that technology is, Su-30M possessed by India is the most capable airframe in the region. So about outdated, yes russian air force but not russian technology if u have the money to pay for it.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

And it would appear that the manufacturer has no problem with using the more efficient ogival radome: http://www.rusarm.ru/cataloque/air_craft/aircraft_107-110.pdf

Cool. That also means that every R-27 missile out there on any picture in existance could be EA.

 

... I think any R-27 with a conical nose cone isn't an EA ... it rather has no seeker whatsoever.

You think, but you don't know. I don't know either and I do have my opinion as well. That is what this thread is about. It is about looking for aand finding facts about EA missile program. There is enough evidence, facts to conclude, something is going on with EA program. I will continue looking for more evidence.

[GGTharos]

You mean the one with western avionics?

 

India have more Su-30M Then Russians, Russian air force is not updated that's obvious but it doesnt mean that technology is, Su-30M possessed by India is the most capable airframe in the region. So about outdated, yes russian air force but not russian technology if u have the money to pay for it.

[GGTharos]

Cool. That also means that every R-27 missile out there on any picture in existance could be EA.

 

Highly unlikely.

 

You think, but you don't know. I don't know either and I do have my opinion as well. That is what this thread is about. It is about looking for aand finding facts about EA missile program. There is enough evidence, facts to conclude, something is going on with EA program. I will continue looking for more evidence.

 

There is enough evidence to conclude precicely nothing; there are no reports from AGAT of ever providing the seeker for R-27 weapons in terms of sales, and there's no reports whatsoever concerning anything resembling an 'R-27EA' program as well. Rather, it would seem that focus is maintained on upgrading the R-77 for now, and designing an R-77 replacement.

 

Until you actually find FACTUAL evidence of some 'R-27EA' program, the indication so far is that it doesn't exist.

 

You're right, I do have an opinion, and my opinion is that you have

a) Gotten stuck on a missile that is no longer viable

b) Convinced yourself that non-evidence is evidence of its existance and

c) You have not bothered to consult any sources that can be verified and credible regarding the matter; not that I would claim this to be an easy thing. AGAT might not want to talk about all this after all ;)