The "mini clouds" in the rain

[philstyle]

Hi ED,

 

 

Maybe delete those "mini clouds" that form around the camera/aircraft when precipitation is turned on (either rain, or thunder storms)

 

1. They looks silly

2. They don't occur in real life

3. The are just in a small bubble around the aircraft (or the camera).. which adds to it looking silly.

You can save yourselves some texture work and save your clients some FPS just by deleting them entirely.

 

Watch from 5:30 in this livestream, which I filmed last night when trying to get some precipitatoin working.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdNig5c9w0A

you can see these "mini clouds" zooming past the canopy. They only generate in a tiny "tunnel" around the pilot. It looks like you could just fly slightly to the left or right, and be in clear sky.. but, NO!, they generate whereever you go, but only in this tiny little piece of airspace right around your own aircraft.

It gets even worse in snow. See the same video at 8 minutes!

Now, to make matters even worse.. when I break through the "snow" at 8 minutes 55, I look back to my wingmen who are still in the "snow + mini clouds". From my perspective, they're now in the bright blue sky and I can see them as plain as day. However, from their perspectiv, I am obscured by snow and these silly "clouds".

Apart from being total nonsense, this means those guys are at a massive disadvantage with respect to S.A, yet in reality the amount of whether between them and me is fixed... I should also be seeing rain and clouds around their aircraft - which I am not.

This seems to me to be another exmaple of ED building an environment that *might* work for single player, but is completely unsuitable for the multiplayer environment.

I am also really surprised that none of the closed-alpha youtubers picked up this issue (actually, they seem to have not picked up any bugs/ issues at all.....something one of my squad mates noticed)

Edited May 29, 2017 by philstyle

[Weta43]

Could you give a screenshot ?

 

I've seen sheets of rain move past the cockpit / camera when there's precipitation (which personally I think are an improvement, and living in a rainy city, I can assure you do happen), but not 'mini clouds'.

 

 

edit: I will say though, that by the time rain is that heavy, you might not be flying visual IRL.

 

See:

tkDoP6gjH5Q

Edited May 29, 2017 by Weta43

[Vlerkies]

I think Phil is referring to this effect, like little puffs/balls of cloud. Saw it in the pre release alpha.

120-130secs

[philstyle]

Could you give a screenshot ?

I've seen sheets of rain move past the cockpit / camera when there's precipitation (which personally I think are an improvement, and living in a rainy city, I can assure you do happen), but not 'mini clouds'.

edit: I will say though, that by the time rain is that heavy, you might not be flying visual IRL.

 

 

Here is a screnshot from the video I linked in the OP, with red arrows pointing at the mini-clouds I am talking about:

http://i.imgur.com/GEMOZCX.jpg

 

Also see the first-person sequences in Vlerkies video here:

As for VFR/IFR: See for yourself. You could easily fly VFR in that rain.

[mugen]

...

2. They don't occur in real life

...

Hi philstyle,

 

those shreds of clouds do exist IRL when it is raining, at least sometimes.

The video is private but I can PM you the URL, if you want me to.

 

greez mugen

[philstyle]

Hi philstyle,

those shreds of clouds do exist IRL when it is raining, at least sometimes.

The video is private but I can PM you the URL, if you want me to.

greez mugen

 

 

 

Hi Mugen, DCS 2.1 is not currently modelling small sections of cloud which are detached from a main cloud bank (which is what your screenshot shows).

DCS 2.1 is modelling a "bubble" of mini clouds (about 1 to 3m in diameter) which appear, like magic, around a Camera.The bubble of clouds disappear a few meters from the camera.. they're just an "effect" being generated aroud the observer. It's a very cheap and nasty way of trying to generate atmospheric phenomena. Better to not model these at all if you ask me.

I am unsure what kind of phenomena they are trying to replicate.. but whatever it is, it's not working well or looking good at all.

 

Feel free to send me your video link.

 

 

Also, in your image, the picture seems to me to be confused a little bit by circles that look like rain-drops on the camera lense:

http://i.imgur.com/W7RtL18.jpg

I've circled these in red, but I need to see a video in order to tell what they are.

Edited May 29, 2017 by philstyle

[mugen]

Ah, i see now what you're at. :thumbup:

Sorry, I misunderstood this. :doh:

 

greez mugen

[OnlyforDCS]

I guess they are trying to simulate sheets of rainfall. However it looks rather poor from the outside view, though from the cockpit the effect is not that bad looking. I too would prefer to see realistic rain effects, especially rain on the canopy, but maybe it's just beyond ED at the moment to do that, hence these types of "local" visual effects.

[philstyle]

I guess they are trying to simulate sheets of rainfall. However it looks rather poor from the outside view, though from the cockpit the effect is not that bad looking. I too would prefer to see realistic rain effects, especially rain on the canopy, but maybe it's just beyond ED at the moment to do that, hence these types of "local" visual effects.

 

Sheets of rain? Possible... but I don't think that's what they are trying to achieve. (if they are, they've really f** it up). These mini-clouds also appear in snow too.. so I doubt the "sheets of rain" explanation can be justified.

 

The rain itself is modelled OK.

Watch from 5:30 in this livestream, which I filmed last night when trying to get some precipitatoin working.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdNig5c9w0A

you can see these "mini clouds" zooming past the canopy. They only generate in a tiny "tunnel" around the pilot. It looks like you could just fly slightly to the left or right, and be in clear sky.. but, NO!, they generate whereever you go, but only in this tiny little piece of airspace right around your own aircraft.

 

It gets even worse in snow. See the same video at 8 minutes!

 

Now, to make matters even worse.. when I break through the "snow" at 8 minutes 55, I look back to my wingmen who are still in the "snow + mini clouds". From my perspective, they're now in the bright blue sky and I can see them as plain as day. However, from their perspectiv, I am obscured by snow and these silly "clouds".

Apart from being total nonsense, this means those guys are at a massive disadvantage with respect to S.A, yet in reality the amount of whether between them and me is fixed... I should also be seeing rain and clouds around their aircraft - which I am not.

 

This seems to me to be another exmaple of ED building an environment that *might* work for single player, but is completely unsuitable for the multiplayer environment.

I am also really surprised that none of the closed-alpha youtubers picked up this issue (actually, they seem to have not picked up any bugs/ issues at all.....something one of my squad mates noticed)

Sections of this post are now copied to the OP, as it clarifies the Op somewhat.

[OnlyforDCS]

Yeah, the "local" effects is the dealbreaker. It might look OKAY in a single player scenario but it will either crap out, or will not be synced with every player in multiplayer correctly.

 

The blue skies snow and rain from that video is even worse than the small white clouds.

 

It's a shame because weather effects and clouds are IMO the most important part of simulating realistic flying.

 

You probably hit the nail on the head with this comment, the backers alpha was a single player only affair:

 

This seems to me to be another exmaple of ED building an environment that *might* work for single player, but is completely unsuitable for the multiplayer environment.

Edited May 29, 2017 by OnlyforDCS

[JokerMan]

The video in the OP from 5m30sec shows an effect apparently happening only around the nose .... I get it .... that there is a case of flying through wisps of cloud and perhaps this is the effect ED are going after .. I dunno. What happened in this video is plain weird weird though.

 

It's a pretty cool idea however and whilst there are issues with it obviously, having weather systems such as this is something we'll all really really enjoy. Looking forward to the improvements and tuning updates to weather.

 

I too noticed the 'passing' sheets of rain by the way and loved it ... very realistic ... for a burst shower in wind that it! \

It's going to get old quick though if that is what raining in DCS is like all the time though !

[Weta43]

If you look at parts of the first video posted, you can see that the sheets of rain are rendering as sheets, but that for some parts from in the cockpit they render as small puffs of cloud.

 

Regarding

another exmaple of ED building an environment that *might* work for single player, but is completely unsuitable for the multiplayer environment

 

:) Given that the vast majority of DCS players never go online, if you had to pick between the two, SP would be the one to design for wouldn't it ?

 

Seriously though, it's a bug. Was the mission using dynamic weather or standard weather ?

 

I am also really surprised that none of the closed-alpha youtubers picked up this issue (actually, they seem to have not picked up any bugs/ issues at all.....something one of my squad mates noticed

 

There were more bugs before you got it, there will be less as time goes on.

 

Just in case you missed the question - was the mission using 'standard' weather or dynamic weather ?

[philstyle]

Seriously though, it's a bug. Was the mission using dynamic weather or standard weather ?

 

As long as ED are aware (and it's on the list) then that's good enough for me.

Weather was set to "standard" - NO dynamic weather.

Am happy to provide any other details needed to squash this one.

 

 

Given that the vast majority of DCS players never go online, if you had to pick between the two, SP would be the one to design for wouldn't it ?

"if you had to pick between the two" - I think a business has some systemic problems when it has dug itself into that kind of hole...

Edited May 29, 2017 by philstyle

[Vlerkies]

I only ever flew it offline.

The puff clouds were clearly visible in the rain vid I posted here which was published 8 May where I was trying to figure out a decent thunderstorm setting as the default seemed poor.

 

Other issues raised were the weird effects close to the sea level in heavy seas that affect cockpits.

 

Wind, current modelling requires wind speeds that seem excessive to break the glass effect of the water, went as far as to suggest a sea state setting independent of wind. If not possible 15-20kts seems more reasonable.

Mirrors also seemed over-saturated

 

My humble little list for the alpha :)

Overall I think its a pretty cracking map, love flying around in it.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Vlerkies

[philstyle]

Wind, current modelling requires wind speeds that seem excessive to break the glass effect of the water, went as far as to suggest a sea state setting independent of wind. If not possible 15-20kts seems more reasonable.

.

 

 

Agree.

Ignoring fetch, whitecaps typically start at 7 knots. from 10-14 knots they are quite numerous and above 15 knots they start producing spray.

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

Totally agree with the OP!!:thumbup:

 

This is by far the single worst effec in DCS...while it can happen irl, the "rain clouds" are very limited in quality and distance which make them look bad...also, I dont think you can see them while flying at 500knots...rain flying looks simply like a FOG, thats all...those "clouds" are the main reason I NEVER fly with rain, they simply look odd and bad and are way too annoying.

 

I would also love to see them removed :thumbup:

[philstyle]

Flew again in Rainy conditions last night.

 

The "mini clouds" are not quite as bad as I thought. HOWEVER I would suggest that are just way too frequent. I would recommend reducing their number (frequency) down to about 2 to 5% of their current setting; so maybe we'd see approx one per minute. Currently there are 5 to 10 of them visible at any time, with around 250 of them spawning-in pre minute.

Reducing them down significantly would make them seem much more like a nice subtle atmospheric tweak, rather than the over-done bombardment that we currently have.

 

Evidence: