Climbing Beyond 15,000 ft

[SharkBait]

Hi All,

 

I am finally able to play DCS stutter free and spent a few hours learning about how to start up, taxi, and land with a P-51. :thumbup: I definitely want to get much more familiarized with the flight model and characteristics of the plane before jumping into multiplayer. :pilotfly:

 

However, I did have a question about flying the P-51. Coming from IL-2: Cliffs of Dover, my preferred fighting style is to always have an altitude advantage over my enemies. This means that I like to get to ~18,000-24,000 ft after taking off. However, as I was flying the P-51 today, I had a very hard time getting to even 15,000 ft, and I could not get past 16,000 ft at all (the engine just did not seem to be able to handle it without overheating).

 

I believe the supercharger was on since I saw the orange light come on (kept the switch on auto). Would someone teach me the proper engine setting I need to be able to climb to 20,000 ft +?

 

Also, my engine started acting weird at ~16,000, as the manifold pressure / RPM kept fluctuating up and down, even if I wasn't moving the throttle at all. I don't think it was the supercharger kicking in and out since the orange light was illuminated the whole time.

 

I would appreciate tips from veterans!

 

~S

SharkBait

[Campbell]

Climbing Beyond 15,000 ft

 

Hard to say without actually seeing your actual cockpit setup. However a couple things to check. First make sure your boost pump switch is on, its just to the left of the starter. Second make sure your radiator coolant and oil radiators are both auto. You’ll see two black cover switches on the left just under the canopy. If the black switches are up then your in auto. Also check your heats, the two knobs on the left just under the radiator switches and above the flap lever- make sure there both forward. Next make sure your climbing with proper engine setting and speed. Engine 46’ Manifold that’s top gauge and 2700 RPM, that’s the bottom gauge. (That’s max continues power) Keep your speed 170-200 mph. As you climb the manifold pressure will decrease by 1 inch for every 1000 ft, so you have to continue to ease the throttle forward as you climb to maintain the manifold pressure setting at 46’. If you climb with those perimeters you can easily reach 30 thousand. Your super charger will kick in automatically around 17,000ft. You’ll notice it, its very obvious. Also you mentioned over heating. A common noob mistake on the pony is to try to keep everything in the green arcs. Ignore them, max continues power and combat power are way out of the green arcs. Your temps can also easily run above the green all the way to redline without issues, if you get over redline just level off and get some air flowing through the radiator and it will come back down. Hope that helps!

 

 

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Edited February 4, 2018 by Campbell

[SharkBait]

Hard to say without actually seeing your actual cockpit setup. However a couple things to check. First make sure your boost pump switch is on, its just to the left of the starter. Second make sure your radiator coolant and oil radiators are both auto. You’ll see two black cover switches on the left just under the canopy. If the black switches are up then your in auto. Also check your heats, the two knobs on the left just under the radiator switches and above the flap lever- make sure there both forward. Next make sure your climbing with proper engine setting and speed. Engine 46’ Manifold that’s top gauge and 2700 RPM, that’s the bottom gauge. (That’s max continues power) Keep your speed 170-200 mph. As you climb the manifold pressure will decrease by 1 inch for every 1000 ft, so you have to continue to ease the throttle forward as you climb to maintain the manifold pressure setting at 46’. If you climb with those perimeters you can easily reach 30 thousand. Your super charger will kick in automatically around 17,000ft. You’ll notice it, its very obvious. Also you mentioned over heating. A common noob mistake on the pony is to try to keep everything in the green arcs. Ignore them, max continues power and combat power are way out of the green arcs. Your temps can also easily run above the green all the way to redline without issues, if you get over redline just level off and get some air flowing through the radiator and it will come back down. Hope that helps!

 

 

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Thanks for your quick response Campbell.

 

Strange, I've tried following all of your directions. the boost pump is on, both radiators are on auto, the heats are also fully open (forward). I'm keeping my engine at 46' and 2700 rpm. The supercharger kicked in ~15,000. I'm still having the same issue, though. It's very difficult to keep my speed between 170-200 mph. If I keep it there, I'm either gaining no altitude or losing altitude. Something is strange!

[SharkBait]

I think I figured it out! I had been setting my mix to rich. I pulled it up to run and I think i'm gaining altitude! Will report back.

[Campbell]

Climbing Beyond 15,000 ft

 

That is strange indeed! Are you sure the super charger is kicking in? You should get a boost in your Manifold Pressure once it kicks in. If it doesn’t then your performance is gonna top out around 13-17 thousand feet. It’s sounding to me like that’s what’s happening, but it could also be something funky with the module install. You may need to remove it and re install it.

 

 

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[Campbell]

Climbing Beyond 15,000 ft

 

Yes it should always be in the run position (1st notch). Emergency setting is never really used!

 

 

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[SharkBait]

Yes it should always be in the run position (1st notch). Emergency setting is never really used!

 

 

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Whoopie! I think I figured it out. It was the mixture. Now I'm ready to bounce 109s and 190s from angels 24! Thanks Campbell.

[Campbell]

alright! Glad you gotta figured out, just remember your weakest in those mid teen altitudes because you can’t produce 100% engine power. Up high 109 and 190’s know this and will try to keep you there. Best to be 10,000 or lower or above super charger altitude when fighting.

 

 

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[Campbell]

Also don’t wait to start multiplayer. Once you can land and take off then jump in. Yes, you’ll get shot down a lot, but you will speed up your learning time ten times faster.

 

 

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[RudderButt]

It sounds like you got this figured out but I experienced the exact same phenomenon and it wound up being that I had "game flight mode" turned on which is a simplified flight model. While you're at it, you might also consider turning off game avionics, auto rudder, and take off assistance if you're looking for the full P-51 experience! Best of luck getting your pony up to her service ceiling!

[Cake]

It sounds like you got this figured out but I experienced the exact same phenomenon and it wound up being that I had "game flight mode" turned on which is a simplified flight model. While you're at it, you might also consider turning off game avionics, auto rudder, and take off assistance if you're looking for the full P-51 experience! Best of luck getting your pony up to her service ceiling!

 

I’ll second that you make sure assistance is zero. For the life of me I couldn’t take off in the Mustang with the default assistance set at full. It wasn’t until I read somewhere this was an issue that I could get the mustang to do what I wanted it to..... not that it isn’t still pretty ugly :)

[Captain Orso]

One other thing, which might help you out. The automatic water radiator flap control works sufficiently. The automatic oil radiator flap control does NOT.

 

While climbing if you are paying attention to your temperature levels, which you definitely should, you will notice that your oil temperature always increases to above optimal 70° - 80° (ie above green). IIRC even on a moderately slow climb rate of 500-1000 feet per minute, your oil temperature will quickly go above green, if you have your oil radiator flap is set to auto.

 

Always switch the oil radiator to manual as soon as it is above green, by tapping it toward Open 2-3 times. After 30 seconds, if your temperature is not below 80° (in the green) tap Open again 2-3 times.

 

Basically you have to do this any time your are doing anything more than straight and level flight at or below maximum cruising (2700 RPM/ 46" MP), especially in combat.

 

Also, pay attention once you have reached your desired altitude and leveled off, to either reduce the oil flap manually or switch back to auto, so that you do not over-cool your oil.

[BitMaster]

Attach the drop tanks and fuel her up all the way then go for a Caucasus Trip on Virtual Aerobatics.

 

She's a lovely plane :)

[Solty]

Yes it should always be in the run position (1st notch). Emergency setting is never really used!

 

 

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Emergency rich is a good setting to use at low altitude dogfighting and pursuit. You can lower your temps with that. But as Campbell says it is not used for any normal operation.

 

I personally use it usually when flying with 67'hg WEP. Then it allows for more sustained maneuvering without overheating as much and is obviously an advantage during chases. You can close your radiator and with enough speed (mostly built up from a dive) you can go up to 603kph at SL. That seems little, but it is a difference between beeing able to catch someone and beeing completely unable.

[kolga]

Emergency rich is a good setting to use at low altitude dogfighting and pursuit. You can lower your temps with that. But as Campbell says it is not used for any normal operation.

 

I personally use it usually when flying with 67'hg WEP. Then it allows for more sustained maneuvering without overheating as much and is obviously an advantage during chases. You can close your radiator and with enough speed (mostly built up from a dive) you can go up to 603kph at SL. That seems little, but it is a difference between beeing able to catch someone and beeing completely unable.

 

 

As per the manual it should be in auto rich for take off and landing, which i at least consider to be normal operations ;)

[Captain Orso]

The manual states, "FULL RICH. The FULL RICH position is an emergency setting to be used only in case of carburetor failure to ensure a sufficient fuel supply to the engine".

[kolga]

The manual states, "FULL RICH. The FULL RICH position is an emergency setting to be used only in case of carburetor failure to ensure a sufficient fuel supply to the engine".

 

Hmm, in the real manual it states Auto rich for basically anything other than cruise at altitude.

 

Here is the one i use:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/P-51D-manual-5april44.pdf

[Yo-Yo]

One other thing, which might help you out. The automatic water radiator flap control works sufficiently. The automatic oil radiator flap control does NOT.

 

While climbing if you are paying attention to your temperature levels, which you definitely should, you will notice that your oil temperature always increases to above optimal 70° - 80° (ie above green). IIRC even on a moderately slow climb rate of 500-1000 feet per minute, your oil temperature will quickly go above green, if you have your oil radiator flap is set to auto.

 

Always switch the oil radiator to manual as soon as it is above green, by tapping it toward Open 2-3 times. After 30 seconds, if your temperature is not below 80° (in the green) tap Open again 2-3 times.

 

Basically you have to do this any time your are doing anything more than straight and level flight at or below maximum cruising (2700 RPM/ 46" MP), especially in combat.

 

Also, pay attention once you have reached your desired altitude and leveled off, to either reduce the oil flap manually or switch back to auto, so that you do not over-cool your oil.

 

It is very old misunderstanding... Oil automatics works perfect, but the temperature margins are set regarding the maintenance manual and do not coincide with the gauge green area marking.

[Captain Orso]

From my experience, if while climbing, or in combat, I don't manually cool the oil, it quickly climbs to well above the red marking (90°C) on the oil temperature gauge. Am I to understand that this is inconsequential?