We all love the trimmings!!!

[Laithar]

As I have flown in RL, albeit only a Piper Tomahawk, I understand the principles of flight and the importance of trimming. I realise that in a simulation, trimming works different in that you don't get to feel the relief as you trim to keep your controls in position.

 

I have had a Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog since I first got DCS in 2016 and I struggled with keeping the A10C straight and level after trimming, noticing that it either started to roll left after correcting for right roll and vice versa. There was never a point in between no matter how hard I tried to keep the POV hat movement to a minimum. Same with pitch, it was either pitching up or down, never exactly straight. So I got used to the auto pilot, which became my best friend.

 

Over the years, I have watched many youtube videos and read comments about others who have experienced the same thing and they have been told to use axis tune in various guises, either being told to change the curves or add dead zones. I have tried curvatures of 10 15, 20, 25 and 30. I even tried a dead zone of 6, which I don't really think it needed but in for a penny and all that. The curvature settings took away the 'feel' I had developed over the years. Having to push the stick further to get a reaction also increased over-compensation but obviously after trimming the aircraft, it still rolled either left or right and it still pitched either up or down.

 

This is so frustrating. I haven't been able to complete AAR yet because the drift is too bad to compensate for. Youtube videos make it look so easy but I don't see the sort of drift I experience, in these videos. Not even a little. I forget how many Harriers I have destroyed because of this and you can forget about trying to land on a carrier. Putting my head down for a brief moment (TrackIR) to flick a switch or change the radio frequency, often ends in a nose dive or sharp deviation off course. This isn't wind modelling.

 

I tried a little experiment today where I released the pin holding the two halves of the throttle and ran one engine slightly slower than the other. It appeared to compensate for the drift and I achieved level flight for more than a second. I guess if one engine is running faster than the other, it would have a tendency to push one side of the aircraft harder and therefore the wing on that side would lift more, creating a roll.

 

Tomorrow, I will be trying a different joystick to see if it makes a difference. In one way I hope it does because it will make my DCS experience more enjoyable, however the downside would be I have spent a huge amount of money on a Warthog HOTAS. Somehow though, I don't think it is the joystick. If only there was some way of calibrating the A10C.

[joker68]

I only have a Warthog, and I'm curious about your findings, as I also suffer from the same problem. Trim in DCS is a PITA, you can never be at the sweet spot - all you can do is to reduce the tendency for a while. Since we don't have seat of paints (SoP) feeling on computer simulation, it would be nice to have an "auto trim", where you would put the plane on the exact desired behavior and then push a button to "auto trim" in that situation (much like the trim work on helicopters). IMHO more realistic than trying to trim without SoP.

RL private pilot too (single prop engine).

[Emmy]

This doesn't make sense because if your A-10 starts a shallow climb at e.g. 50ft/min you won't feel it. And what on earth is a 'seat of paints'?

 

So he fat fingered a word... Relax

[joker68]

If your A-10 starts a shallow climb at e.g. 50ft/min you won't feel it IRL either. And what on earth is a 'seat of paints'?

 

I agree that I wouldn't feel a very shallow climb or descent, but you can "see" the aileron trimming going wrong just looking at the horizon. At least for me it is *really* hard to get the sweet spot - it seems it always go from "little bit less" to "little bit much", even doing "millisecond touches" on the HAT switch trying to stabilize.

 

Oh, and I mean "seat of pants", you know, when you feel the forces with your body. Must have been some automatic "correction" from my comp.

[Laithar]

Another five attempts at refuelling and I feel like I'm being hypnoized by the fuel boom as I try to align the Warthog. I concentrate so much, my eyes get dry and I'm seeing multiple booms. I also found 179 knts and the tanker moves away, 181 knts and the boom comes flying through the cockpit, touch the bit with the wings on and it brings the whole tanker down. So touchy...lol.

 

I get that you wouldn't be able to trim so that it would be perfectly level for ever. I do remember crosswind or even little gusts every now and then would blow the Tomahawk off course slightly. It was a lightweight really but fun to fly and if I did drift off course, a quick correction and I was back. The fact is that once it was trimmed for straight and level, I didn't have to do it again unless I wanted to go straight and level at a faster or slower speed. It was trimmed for cruise and to climb, it was just a case of increase throttle to max, descending was reduce throttle to idle.

 

Of course in the DCS, I kinda expected the same but I get that different weights and configurations all have an affect. But if an autopilot can put me straight and level then I can't see how an electronic trim system can't. Surely the autopilot uses the same controls. For example, when straight and level at say 180 knts is set and trimmed, any change in pitch should affect the speed and any change in speed should affect the pitch. So if the nose drops, the speed increases causing an increase in lift and the nose should rise again. We know this happens during a takeoff climb at full throttle. If you pitch the nose above 10 degrees, the speed starts to slow down and the nose drops until it reaches a point where the pitch and climb speed balances out. That's why I don't understand why during normal flight, once it is trimmed it should pretty much stay level unless the control surfaces are changed or a gust of wind blows on it. But my experience so far is that after trimming, the nose either drops and the speed increases or the nose rises and the speed decreases but the aircraft doesn't balance.

 

I suppose formation flying would have the same problem, I was hoping to do that at some point but if I can't hold a line then that will be hopeless. I've already tried landing a Harrier after watching a tutorial and Helos are just as bad. Tomorrow, I'm getting a Logitech 3D Pro to see how it holds up. I got it cheap so it's a small price to pay to isolate my Thrustmaster. Of course if it is all about technique then it will make no difference.

[hansangb]

?

 

Seat of the pants. Meaning feeling the Gs, sensation of movement, acceleration etc.

[simo1000rr]

One thing you need ti do is when you doing AAR never focus on the BOOM always try to focus at the under belly of the Tanker and maintain a steady distance between you and the tanker . i always find that if you focus on the Tanker never gives you that feeling you get when you focus on the BOOM , let alone that the BOOM keeps moving .

 

keep your distance steady , follow the light indicator under the tanker and the BOOM should connect easily . Practice , practice , practice . i was there before now i can refuel the while drinking my coffee literally no joke in the F15 though

[NahkaSukka]

Hardest thing for me in AAR is to keep the same speed the tanker has which feels impossible to me, especially with A-10. With Su-33 i managed to do well until the damn tanker made that sharp turn and i got disconnected.

[Laithar]

Well, I've had a few cracks at the AAR with the Extreme 3D Pro and it did seem a little easier to control but not by much. I actually achieved contact a couple of times but disconnects were not far behind. After a few attempts at reconnected, I realised where it said 'Ready', it now said 'Disconnect' and I needed to clear it. None of the buttons were set up on the 3D Pro so I went back to the Warthog HOTAS. I've had a few connects with the Warthog stick and even took on fuel. It seems I'm getting better at this.

 

I took on board the advice about speed. This training mission was found online and the KC 135 tanker is set up to travel between two waypoints. I I don't manage it by waypoint 2, the tanker dives and lands. I went into the editor to check the speed and it is set for 220knts. I don't know why it doesn't go any faster. I tried upping the speed but it made no difference, the tanker appears to be stuck at 182knts. It seems also that after editing the mission, if I exit out of it to start again, the screen goes black and I have to end the task in task manager so I don't know what is going on there.

 

Anyway, back to the grind...I will crack this one way or another!!

 

Just watch how stable this plane is!!

Edited February 10, 2018 by Laithar
Adding a link to a video