104th_Money Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I noticed that whenever aileron input is applied, the rudder is also applied in the direction of the roll even though I am not applying rudder with pedals. This seems to always give a bit of yaw when rolling somewhat to very aggressively. I checked to see if I had rudder binding to roll commands but it was not. I havent seen any video clips of the AV-8B doing this but there is a video from 2000 showing a GR7 making very crisp rolls and levels... Any thoughts? Intel i9-13900k, Asus Z790-E Gaming Wi-fi 2 motherboard, 64gb Corsair DDR5-6400 RGB ram 2x32gb XMP2 profile, 2TB Crucial T700 PCIE 5.0 SSD internal, 2TB Samsung 980 Pro PCIE 4.0 SSD internal, Asus ROG Strix OC GeForce RTX 4090, Corsair 7000X Case with 5 x 120mm side mounted intake fans and 3 x 140mm top mounted exhaust fans, 1 x 140mm rear mounted exhaust fans, front mounted Corsair H150i Elite Capellix 360mm liquid cooler w/Elite LCD with 6 x 120mm fans in 3 push, 3 pull intake configuration, 1 x 32" Samsung 3840x2160 display, 1x 32" Asus 2560x1440 display, TrackIR5 w/pro clip, Thrustmaster Warthog stick and throttle, CH Fighterstick Pro and Pebble Beach Velocity pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karon Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) I don't have the NATOPS right now so I can't double check; but IIRC this behavious is mentioned there and I think it can also be disabled. As soon as I'm back I'll check and edit. EDIT 2.16.1 Stability Augmentation System The three SAS mode selection controls are the PITCH, ROLL and YAW switches which engage the stability augmentation in the corresponding aircraft axes. The stability augmentation system increases aircraft stability and improves the response to pilot inputs in maneuvering flight throughout the entire flight envelope. The yaw SAS also provides a lateral stick to rudder interconnect for improved turn coordination. The SAS switches may be engaged and disengaged individually to provide stability augmentation in any desired combination of the three axes. Disengaging individual SAS switches degrades departure resistance (DEP RES) which greatly increases the possibility of violent departure in certain flight regimes. An interlock between the yaw SAS switch and the weight−on−wheels switch on the main gear inhibits the yaw stability augmentation when the aircraft is on the ground. Pressing the emergency SAAHS disengage switch (paddle switch) located on the control stick grip interrupts the stability augmentation system in all three axes and also removes rudder trim. Releasing the paddle switch restores stability augmentation to those axes selected by the SAS switches and restores the rudder trim. Edited March 16, 2018 by Karon "Cogito, ergo RIO" Virtual Backseaters Volume I: F-14 Radar Intercept Officer - Fifth Public Draft Virtual Backseaters Volume II: F-4E Weapon Systems Officer - Internal Draft WIP Phantom Articles: Air-to-Air and APQ-120 | F-4E Must-know manoevure: SYNC-Z-TURN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenSim Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 This coupling behavior is accurate. The AV-8B is fairly susceptible to adverse yaw (yaw in the opposite direction of a roll due to increased drag on the upward-moving wing), and the SAAHS applies rudder in the direction of the roll to counteract the worst of these effects (I haven't tested whether this is true in DCS yet). This affects the AV-8B's NATOPS roll limitations and it's important to make your rolls unloaded at higher IMN. At airspeeds < ~500 KCAS > 15,000' MSL or < ~400 KCAS < 15,000' MSL, rapid onset of AOA in a loaded roll can cause a wing rock condition or departure. Disabling SAAHS doesn't increase roll performance at all, it just makes you more susceptible to departure. "It is also true that we parted ways with Chicken after some disagreements." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktoberfest Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I’m pretty sure It was mentioned that the only bug is that disabling the SAS system doesn’t actual disable it- and it’s going to be fixed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zadren Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 This coupling behavior is accurate. The AV-8B is fairly susceptible to adverse yaw (yaw in the opposite direction of a roll due to increased drag on the upward-moving wing), and the SAAHS applies rudder in the direction of the roll to counteract the worst of these effects (I haven't tested whether this is true in DCS yet). This affects the AV-8B's NATOPS roll limitations and it's important to make your rolls unloaded at higher IMN. At airspeeds < ~500 KCAS > 15,000' MSL or < ~400 KCAS < 15,000' MSL, rapid onset of AOA in a loaded roll can cause a wing rock condition or departure. Disabling SAAHS doesn't increase roll performance at all, it just makes you more susceptible to departure. Could you define 'loaded roll' and IMN please? Not applying G in the turn, or don't pull until your roll is complete? Or am I way off? :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenSim Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) IMN is your Indicated Mach Number on the HUD. A loaded roll is when you're pulling G during the roll itself, so don't pull until the roll is complete and you've captured the desired bank angle for the turn. That's not to say you should never perform loaded rolls, just pay particular attention to doing them at high airspeeds. The aircraft is considered "Mach limited" at high altitude (>15,000' don't do loaded rolls > ~0.8 IMN) and "AOA limited" at the bands described above. At lower altitude and lower speeds the aircraft is "G limited" and you're more likely to over-G the airplane than depart controlled flight. Edited March 17, 2018 by ChickenSim "It is also true that we parted ways with Chicken after some disagreements." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zadren Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 IMN is your Indicated Mach Number on the HUD. A loaded roll is when you're pulling G during the roll itself, so don't pull until the roll is complete and you've captured the desired bank angle for the turn. That's not to say you should never perform loaded rolls, just pay particular attention to doing them at high airspeeds. The aircraft is considered "Mach limited" at high altitude (>15,000' don't do loaded rolls > ~0.8 IMN) and "AOA limited" at the bands described above. At lower altitude and lower speeds the aircraft is "G limited" and you're more likely to over-G the airplane than depart controlled flight. Thank you for the explanation. On a similar vein, is it fair to say that if you want to do a level turn, with G applied, then you must have rolled through 90 degrees? Pulling the stick back in any shallower angle always results in a climbing turn, which isn't necessarily desired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenSim Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Not quite, all level turns will have some G required to maintain level flight. otherwise they would be slipping or "slicing" into a descent. The bank angle and amount of G pulled to maintain level flight are going to be related (Load Factor), but if you banked 90° you'd likely need more G than you could possibly pull to keep from descending. "It is also true that we parted ways with Chicken after some disagreements." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zadren Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Yeah, it's just me being ham-fisted and trying to turn right angles :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
104th_Money Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 Thanks for the responses guys, guess thats the way its supposed to be... Intel i9-13900k, Asus Z790-E Gaming Wi-fi 2 motherboard, 64gb Corsair DDR5-6400 RGB ram 2x32gb XMP2 profile, 2TB Crucial T700 PCIE 5.0 SSD internal, 2TB Samsung 980 Pro PCIE 4.0 SSD internal, Asus ROG Strix OC GeForce RTX 4090, Corsair 7000X Case with 5 x 120mm side mounted intake fans and 3 x 140mm top mounted exhaust fans, 1 x 140mm rear mounted exhaust fans, front mounted Corsair H150i Elite Capellix 360mm liquid cooler w/Elite LCD with 6 x 120mm fans in 3 push, 3 pull intake configuration, 1 x 32" Samsung 3840x2160 display, 1x 32" Asus 2560x1440 display, TrackIR5 w/pro clip, Thrustmaster Warthog stick and throttle, CH Fighterstick Pro and Pebble Beach Velocity pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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